Changing Ranger standards... sad but true.

[yazhound]

Changing Army Ranger standards
Regarding the Feb. 5 online article “In a historic first, five women qualify for Army Ranger school” (CSMonitor.com): I was an Army Ranger for 13 years and an instructor at Ranger School for three years. It seems as if once every decade the Army tries to find women who can meet the standards of Ranger School – and decade after decade the standards for completion of Ranger School get lowered.

When I attended Ranger School in 1990 there were four phases (Benning, Mountains, Florida, and Desert) and it lasted 96 days with only one meal per day. Now there are only three phases (with Desert removed in the ’90s) and it lasts 61-plus days with two meals per day. I have no issue with a woman being a Ranger, but no one can tell me that the new requirements, which help facilitate a woman graduating, aren’t political. I personally saw the decline in standards, and with it the decline in significance of earning the Ranger Tab, from when I graduated in 1990 to when I was an instructor from 1998 to 2001.
Steve Holbrook
Fort Worth, Texas

[widebody911]

It's more important to have a diverse force than a competent force.

[recycled sixtie]

Have to add that those Russian women in the army defending their homeland in WW2 against the Germans would be a force to reckon with.

[Evans, Marv]

It's that way everywhere - armed services, police, fire, border patrol, etc., etc. As a young guy I worked as a back country ranger during summers in the Sierras. I had to help with rescues and do rescue work by myself as part of the job. I once had to carry a guy piggy back who weighed 20 lbs. more than I did two miles cross country (rocky, up & down hill) to get him to a place where he could be evacuated by helicopter or stock. He had broken an ankle in a place too narrow for helicopter and pretty much too rough to get stock into. I wasn't a huge guy, but strong for my size and in really good shape. The guy was amazed. I just told him it was his tax dollars at work. That wasn't the only time I had to do something like that, & the other guys had to do it too. Now they have put some women up there to do the job. In that situation a woman would have had to call in a chopper with two more guys on it to be dropped in the area to help the guy out to where he could be evacuated. More expense and man hours because the person there wasn't up to handling the job alone. Not saying a male would be able to solve all problems by himself, but the odds were much greater.

[Rikao4]

not the same thing..
US women soldiers have found themselves in combat just because of logistic's and location..
and some current MOS's can put them out there more than others..
but passing the women's PT test is a long way from making it out of Ranger trng..
unless the Inst. have no choice...
which is probably what will happen..

Rika


Rika

[yazhound]

wonder if the ruck loads will be made lighter

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by yazhound

wonder if the ruck loads will be made lighter

When I was a firefighter with the USFS we carried different fire hose literally for that purpose. We called it "consent decree" hose

[HHI944]

Originally Posted by yazhound

wonder if the ruck loads will be made lighter

The official word is still that no standards will be changed. Some. Will have to meet the same PT standards as men for entrance and complete the same obstacles as men...

[ckelly78z]

There are new Obama style requirements for the new rangers going through training, There are now only two phases rather than three, those are 21 days in a mall fighting off other shoppers, and 21 days in a spa setting going through the rigors of personal hygiene, and only 3 catered meals a day. That should attract some healthy applicants.

[fintstone]

Hard to believe the standards will not be different. I am in the AF Reserve (and freakin old) and my fitness test requirements are still higher than those of my daughter who is an active duty officer and half my age. I have never been through a obstacle/confidence course where women were not allowed to run around the tougher obstacles (unlike in An Officer and a Gentleman).

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

There are new Obama style requirements

Citation needed.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by widebody911

Citation needed.

Did you really find this serious?

"those are 21 days in a mall fighting off other shoppers, and 21 days in a spa setting going through the rigors of personal hygiene, and only 3 catered meals a day. That should attract some healthy applicants"

[fintstone]

Personally, I am surprised the Ranger minimum fitness standards are as low as they are now...but I have to admit that I could not do the swimming part. Probably could do the rest.

It seems to me that 16-mile hike w/65lb pack in 5 hours 20 minutes and the 15-meter swim with gear would kill it for most women as the pack/gear would be the biggest challenge.

[jyl]

I think he's making a point about trying to blame Obama for everything by making up silly stories.

Quote de widebody911

Citation needed.

Did you really find this serious?



"those are 21 days in a mall fighting off other shoppers, and 21 days in a spa setting going through the rigors of personal hygiene, and only 3 catered meals a day. That should attract some healthy applicants"

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

There are new Obama style requirements for the new rangers going through training, There are now only two phases rather than three, those are 21 days in a mall fighting off other shoppers, and 21 days in a spa setting going through the rigors of personal hygiene, and only 3 catered meals a day. That should attract some healthy applicants.

Should have been in GREEN font.

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by yazhound

Changing Army Ranger standards
Regarding the Feb. 5 online article “In a historic first, five women qualify for Army Ranger school” (CSMonitor.com): I was an Army Ranger for 13 years and an instructor at Ranger School for three years. It seems as if once every decade the Army tries to find women who can meet the standards of Ranger School – and decade after decade the standards for completion of Ranger School get lowered.

When I attended Ranger School in 1990 there were four phases (Benning, Mountains, Florida, and Desert) and it lasted 96 days with only one meal per day. Now there are only three phases (with Desert removed in the ’90s) and it lasts 61-plus days with two meals per day. I have no issue with a woman being a Ranger, but no one can tell me that the new requirements, which help facilitate a woman graduating, aren’t political. I personally saw the decline in standards, and with it the decline in significance of earning the Ranger Tab, from when I graduated in 1990 to when I was an instructor from 1998 to 2001.
Steve Holbrook
Fort Worth, Texas

Have some retired friends working at US SOCOM dealing with this issue....not good.
What Batt were you in we prob know some of the same folks.

[HHI944]

Originally Posted by Reiver

Have some retired friends working at US SOCOM dealing with this issue....not good.
What Batt were you in we prob know some of the same folks.

Do you know what kind of graduation rate they're actually expecting? I don't know anyone in RTB, but I've heard less than stellar expectations from some guys at Benning.

[Reiver]

Originally Posted by HHI944

Do you know what kind of graduation rate they're actually expecting? I don't know anyone in RTB, but I've heard less than stellar expectations from some guys at Benning.

No idea...presently they are having trouble getting the numbers they want thru pre Ranger as they want each female candidate to have a Ranger buddy that's a female and it ain't happening.
They let some thru pre Ranger that did not meet standards so there would be enough buddies.

[HHI944]

Crap....I'd heard they were seeing huge washout rates with the pre-course, I hadn't heard that they were pushing them through without meeting the standard.

[ZOO]

How do we know whether the initial standards were actually correlated with in field performance? Who set them? For what type of mission? Has that mission changed?

I think that performance standards need to be benchmarked against the needs and requirements of the mission on a regular basis if you truly want to attract the best. If the performance standard is biased against certain groups, it may actually limit the efficacy of the team, especially if the needs have changed over time.

Here is an example. In Toronto, the old standards required all police officers to be a minimum of six feet in height. Why?

Things change and evolve. It doesn't mean they are worse.