A320 Down

[flipper35]

Just throwing this out there, but could this be a mis-programed FMS?

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

What I find more interesting is the abundance of air accident mysteries in the last few years. Amazing that in this day of 24/7 surveillance and constant communication, that airplanes can either vanish or crash without any known cause.

This times ten million, I have a $99 dollar Samsung smart phone that can GPS me and direct me to the closest starbucks.

[aigel]

German paper der Spiegel says the voice recordings have been recovered.

They also have some theories. One is that the plane kept on its exact course while going down in elevation in a constant / controlled manner. They speculate the auto pilot was on and the input was to drop elevation. Then whatever technical problem triggering the need to lower the elevation got out of control and communication was no longer possible to fill in traffic control.



G

[motion]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

This is why I much prefer the Jet Blue A380 on the L.B. to Portland.

Um, I don't think JetBlue flies an A380 out of Long Beach for a domestic flight

[Don Plumley]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

This is why I much prefer the Jet Blue A380 on the L.B. to Portland.

JB flies A320/A321. A380 are the double decker (hence Motion's "upstairs" comment) behemoth.

[rusnak]

Both of his comments were a tad bit boorish IMO.

[gordner]

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

Huge Boeing fan here. Here's a few tidbits to chew on:

SWA: One type of aircraft has been strictly adhered to for operational cost reasons - one A/C to train pilots, mechanics, spare parts, etc.

AF477: the very detailed Vanity Fair article by William Langewiesche.

Sully/Hudson: It's been argued that the A320 FBW and controls helped him hold maximum AOA while keeping the plane level to cradle the A/C into the water.
QF32: That's the A380 that had the catastrophic engine failure. I read this book by the pilot, Richard Crespigny, flying back from Melbourne - great read. I will say the A380 is one of the smoothest experiences I've had - attributed to the seagull wing and three ailerons.

Do I like the idea of Boeing's "pilot first" philosophy, and mirrored controls? Absolutely. Will I get on the A320 I am scheduled to fly on Monday? Without hesitation.

While this may be true, the event would never have occured in a Boeing. On teardown they discovered that the aircraft had two running engines after the bird strikes, the Airbus decided to reduce them to idle in order to preven further engine damage. Both engines were damaged, but a damaged turbine can still make good power. Had it been a Boeing, it most likely would have resulted in an uneventful go around and normal landing.

[Cajundaddy]

3500ft/minute descent rate for 8 minutes with no cockpit communication is a bit puzzling. A steep descent that is not consistent with a rapid decompression or glide slope. Hmmmm.

[greglepore]

The descent rate is consistent with an emergency descent programmed into the autopilot.

Gordner, what is your source for this statement? And who is to say that even if its correct that the engines wouldn't have had a more destructive failure if they continued to run ?

[gordner]

I am an aircraft maintenance engineer, and understand some of what comes out of the NTSB. The condition of the engines was in a "maintainer" article I read awhile back.
As for destructive failure, the engines were powered back by the aircraft systems to try to reduce them being further damaged. As a result, a 100 million dollar plus airframe was dumped in the river and both the airframe and engines destroyed, so who really cares if they had suffered more damage due to continuing to pull power? They pose very little risk to the airframe during a failure, they are designed to come apart without risking the aircraft.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by motion

Um, I don't think JetBlue flies an A380 out of Long Beach for a domestic flight

Originally Posted by Don Plumley

JB flies A320/A321. A380 are the double decker (hence Motion's "upstairs" comment) behemoth.

Sorry, my bad... I am no where near an expert on aircraft.
I just knew that Alaska fly the Boeing and JB fly the airbus (both medium size domestic commuter aircraft)... I obviously got the airbus # wrong.

My point being I prefer the airbus and I have no fear of flying on one.

Carry on.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by greglepore

The descent rate is consistent with an emergency descent programmed into the autopilot.

Yes, that was what ze German paper was speculating about. They thought there could have been a rapid cabin pressure loss and apparently the first thing to do is get O2 on the pilots, put plane into descent, and then communicate. Speculation is that they were able to perform at least step 2 but not step 3 before they were incapacitated. The other thing I read was that a cabin air pressure drop can usually be diagnosed by the O2 mask being deployed on the wreckage. Not so sure if that is easily visible on this powdered wreck.

So, what would cause sudden cabin air pressure drop?

On the life of an airframe, I read that they are practically good forever and that planes are usually retired for lower fuel efficiency, cost of remodeling vs. a new purchase.

G

[gordner]

Airframes are good forever essentially because they are so highly inspected. They are good so long as you catch the cracks early....

[greglepore]

Gordner, appreciate the input. I'd have to wonder if there isn't some cockpit override available for this event. I'm sure one of the Airbus drivers here could provide some insight.

This has nothing to do with Airbus vs Boeing though. The only plausible theory at this point is something that incapacitated the crew after they were able to dial in an emergency descent. Probably sudden decompression. It seems that at fl380 you'd have about 15 functional seconds, and it's not easy to get the mask on and functional in those conditions. There are plenty of Boeing incidents of decompression, including some where the windscreen departed the aircraft. Imagine have 15 seconds to try to get a mask on with a 350 kt below zero wind in your face.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Sitting in the Delta Sky Club at ATL, unfortunately subjected to the CNN moron talking heads. Their "aviation correspondent" screwed up the name of the FDR company that he interviewed earlier today, is repeatedly referring to ATC as "ground control", and speculating about all of the crazy BS that COULD have happened. I have an idea you stupid a-hole, it was the effing aliens that did it! This conversation was immediately preceded by the CNN crew outside the home of family members of two Americans that were killed, and they had the nerve to say that they "respected their privacy". YGBSM. People watch this schite?

I'm going to finish my beer and get as far away from the tv as possible.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sitting in the Delta Sky Club at ATL, unfortunately subjected to the CNN moron talking heads. Their "aviation correspondent" screwed up the name of the FDR company that he interviewed earlier today, is repeatedly referring to ATC as "ground control", and speculating about all of the crazy BS that COULD have happened. I have an idea you stupid a-hole, it was the effing aliens that did it! This conversation was immediately preceded by the CNN crew outside the home of family members of two Americans that were killed, and they had the nerve to say that they "respected their privacy". YGBSM. People watch this schite?

I'm going to finish my beer and get as far away from the tv as possible.

The answer is out there...

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

The answer is out there...

I detect you have a cow in this discussion ?

[A930Rocket]

Just in: Pilot locked out of cockpit.

One pilot on the doomed Germanwings airliner that crashed into the Alps Tuesday apparently was locked out the cockpit moments before the plane crashed, killing all 150 on board, the New York Times reported Wednesday afternoon.

An investigator told the paper that evidence from a voice recorder indicated that the pilot had left the cockpit and could not re-enter. He tried knocking lightly on the door, and when there was no immediate answer, he began knocking more loudly.

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Finally, the source told the Times, audio on the recorder revealed: “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

The source said investigators did not yet know why the pilot left the cockpit. French aviation investigators said earlier Wednesday that they had not the "slightest explanation" for what happened.....

[Crowbob]

So the latest is that the voice recorder indicates one pilot got locked out of the cockpit, the other pilot didn't let him back in then the plane made a slow, deliberate descent into the side of a mountain...

[Baz]

Report: Pilot locked out of cockpit before Germanwings crash

Germanwings crash report: Pilot locked out of cockpit - CNN.com