I have eight employees at my café. I start everyone at minimum wage which in NY is $8.75. Once they have been with me a while and prove their value I raise their salary. My highest paid employee is currently making $12 per hour plus tips. If the minimum wage is increased to $15 per hour I will be faced with two choices lay off half my staff and only use 1 person per shift or close the doors completely. How does this help get people off of government assistance? Either 4 people will become unemployed or all 8 will. This is a small business that I keep basically because my wife enjoys it. There is really not much money in it so I have no problem closing the doors as I have other incomes that pay my bills.
Why not cut out some the taxes I pay on each of my employees and require the business owner to pass this money on to the employees.? I would gladly do that and if the powers that be are truly concerned with helping those workers they should be glad to do it.

Sad that you have such a low opinion of humanity.

This post pretty much sums it all up. You must maintain your margins. It is not elective, it is essential to staying in business. Raising minimum wage increases costs for everyone, and it will hurt the entry level worker the absolute most, followed by the rest of the payroll employees.

Sad that you choose to ignore reality,

I go to a local car wash for the Camry once or twice a month. In CA the guys that dry the cars get minimum wage. It seems pretty much everyone tips them $2-$3 They seem to do about 5 cars/hour, or more, so they are pulling in around $20/hour combined, at least on the weekends, can't speak about M-F.

Well said, Mike. I own a couple of restaurants and a retail store as well and although I employ very well paid salaried managers, executive chefs and sous chefs I still cringe when I see these staged "protests" in my area. Most of the folks demonstrating seem to equate their earned wages with the value of their lives, and the fact is that in reality one has nothing to do with the other.

When my businesses run lean, I am the one that doesn't get paid. My employees will always get their checks before I will no matter what.

$15 minimum for fast food workers would change that industry overnight--most of those employees would ultimately lose their jobs to automation and rightfully so--as the business owner has the right to earn his "comfortable" living as much as people who think they've somehow earned or deserve to be paid $15 an hour.

McDonald's hires 7,000 touch-screen cashiers - CNET

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1429742083.gif

"Welcome to McDonald's . My name is HAL 9000. May I take your order?"

McDonalds recently went on a hiring binge in the U.S., adding 62,000 employees to its roster. The hiring picture doesn't look quite so rosy for Europe, where the fast food chain is drafting 7,000 touch-screen kiosks to handle cashiering duties.

The move is designed to boost efficiency and make ordering more convenient for customers. In an interview with the Financial Times, McDonald's Europe President Steve Easterbrook notes that the new system will also open up a goldmine of data. McDonald's could potentially track every Big Mac, McNugget, and large shake you order. A calorie account tally at the end of the year could be a real shocker.

The touch screens will only accept debit or credit cards, adding to the slow death knell of cash and coins. This all goes along with an overall revamp of McDonald's restaurants worldwide aimed at projecting a modern image as opposed to the old-fashioned golden arches with a slightly creepy (to my taste anyway) clown guy hanging around the french fries.

This puts McDonald's one step closer to opening up its first Alphaville location. At least our new computer overlords will be nice enough to serve us a Filet-o-Fish. Maybe they'll even throw in an iPad with the Happy Meal one of these days.

Why do BK and McD's offer soda machines with free refills? Because the drink machine costs a few pennies/hour and having someone behind the counter filling your drink order costs $'s/hour.

I used to work for minimum wage, that was a long time ago. As time went on, I increased my skill set and now I make much more than minimum wage. I thought that is how it's supposed to work.

Now, if you want to talk about maximum wage.....I would be perfectly ok with paying the top dog anything you damm want but the maximum tax deduction for individual labor would be capped - say $150k.

How is a realistic assessment of human nature equate to a low opinion of them?

The minimum wage should have reached $21.72 an hour in 2012 if it kept up with increases in worker productivity, according to a March study by the Center for Economic and Policy Research. While advancements in technology have increased the amount of goods and services that can be produced in a set amount of time, wages have remained relatively flat, the study points out.

Even if the minimum wage kept up with inflation since it peaked in real value in the late 1960s, low-wage workers should be earning a minimum of $10.52 an hour, according to the study.

Between the end of World War II and the late 1960s, productivity and wages grew steadily. Since the minimum wage peaked in 1968, increases in productivity have outpaced the minimum wage growth.

The current minimum wage stands at $7.25 an hour. In 2011, more than 66 percent of Americans surveyed by the Public Religion Research Institute supported raising this figure to $10.

The last time the federal minimum wage increased was in 2009. Currently observed in 31 states, the federal minimum wage translates to an annual income of about $15,000 a year for someone working 40 hours per week.

Markets for everything have become saturated, thus requiring greater productivity, or cash on cash return.

It's not like employers have gotten fatter and happier since WWII. They have gotten leaner and meaner, or they have gone out of business.

Well there ya go... It's not the workers who are more productive; it's the machines.

Just look at elevator operators - their productivity has gone thru the roof.

How does that claim square with the remarkable growth in income inequality?

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/ricku...nequality2.jpg

By the way, I personally have not decided if I support an increase in minimum wage, or how much/how fast. I'm still thinking about it. Hence this thread.

Right, like your water thread. You have your opinion and are not interested in discussion.

Your chart shows the disparity between Wall Street and Main Street, if we are to take the label "Household Income" to mean exactly that, which includes doctors, lawyers, as well as teachers and auto mechanics. The disparity is not in the top 20%, it's in the top 1%. Who do you think that is?

The red line is the top 1%. That is roughly $400K+ annual income, judging from this tool
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html?_r=0 There is data somewhere that will give a more precise number, if needed.

The yellow line is the top 20%. That is roughly $100K and higher annual income. $100K isn't really a "Wall Street" income; only junior Wall Streeters are making that little.

The light blue line is in the top 60% but below the top 40%. That is roughly $40K to $60K annual income. That is basically the median household income in the US.

The dark blue line is the bottom 20%. That is roughly $20K annual income and below. That is the minimum wage group, among others.

No I am not talking about none US citizens. I meant illegals, those without a greencard, SSC card or number. If a business decides to hire people from that group, then they are breaking the law and I am sure the IRS will love to have that income tax from that group.

I'm not so sure about that. The feds want nothing to do with enforcing immigration law north of about five miles of the border and the IRS won't bother either.

I was at Newark Int'l. Airport a few days ago and every single place in the food court had iPads for ordering. There were no humans involved in the process. I had an interview a few yrs. ago with a company that builds the kiosks for those devices. They are booming. As min. wage increases, fast food will become far more automated.

If you really wanted to analyze your own question, and were not in a rush to "make a point", then you'd see that the disparity is between the 1% and everyone else. That is NOT illustrative of anything to do with this thread. You have introduced a collateral issue, that of Wall Street compensation, as if it has anything to do with minimum wage, which it does not.

The real issue is the corellation between minimum wage increases and the effect of same on the overall economy.

I'm not sure why you label the top, red line as being "Wall Street". Most people with incomes in the top 1% are not on Wall Street. Many are professional of other sorts. Many are business owners. The typical McDonald's franchise owner makes $500K to $1MM income per restaurant (according to MCD).

And I assume you can see the difference between the second, yellow line and the lower two lines. As I've told you, the yellow line doesn't represent "Wall Street" at all. The only people on Wall Street making $100K are the most junior ones.

So, let's go back to the point that the chart makes. Which is not this Wall Street vs Main Street thing you came up with. The point is that employers generally, who are mostly represented by the two upper lines, are achieving income gains much larger than the bulk of employees, who are mostly represented by the two lower lines.

Yes, I realize there are very small employers (very small businesses) whose income is in the lower two lines. My father in law was one. He had a small janitor service. If he'd had to increase his (three) employees' wages by 50%, he would have had to do with fewer employees, work longer hours himself, and make less money. Because the local Safeway wouldnt have paid more to have their stores cleaned. But if Safeway had been required to raise their employees' salaries, the executives of Safeway wouldn't have suffered. The share price probably would have.

In Seattle, I think the minimum wage increase that will take place over the next 5 years is on some sort of sliding scale, by company size. I suppose that is an attempt to address this particular issue.

The top 1% of all income earners are not Wall Street deal makers but rather McDonald's franchisees eh? You're nuttier than I thought. And as I said, you pretend to have not made up your mind when you start these passive/ aggressive type threads.

The free market is so very efficient at establishing wages. Why do we need politicians to do it for us.

Getting paid what you are worth is an incredible incentive to work harder, add skills, and be more productive. Being able to attract and retain quality workers is an incredible incentive to pay fair wages.

With competing employers and employees, everyone gets paid the fair market value of their work.

Everyone benefits when the free market is allowed to function.

Yeah, enforcing is the key word.

$400k family income does not seem that hard to do for two working professionals in their peak earning years in a high cost of living area....if they have done side investments generating income such as real estate or the stock market.

I was at a Wendy's the other day and had to wait for 20 minutes in line inside the store because of absolute ineptitude, it's like a rush of lunch customers was a complete surprise to them. That was bad enough, but thier new soda/drink machine had everyone scratching thier heads. It was completely automatic and you had to navigate through sevceral screens to get any drink you wanted. (I couldn't just point to the button I wanted and push it to get my soda). If this is the future of fast food, i'll send my wife in to order. The people behind the counter didn't deserve the minimum wage they were getting, let alone a raise to $15 an hour.

It should vary with local, and definitely not be federal.

What a person can live on, varies by region.

Minimum wage simply means if a job isn't worth enough to live off of, it will get eliminated ASAP. Higher minimum wages eliminate jobs that cease to make economic sense.

E.g. a pair of successful doctors or lawyers, or one who is very successful, in a coastal city.

We are seeing a higher minimum wage experiment play out now in our neighbor to the north, Washington State.

This is a summary of the Seattle "$15 by 2021" law, which went into effect this month.

http://www.jacksonlewis.com/media/pnc/8/media.2708.pdf

It phases in the increase - from $9.25 to $11 now, rising to $15 by 2021, which is about +5%/yr from 2015 to 2021, call it about 3% above inflation. It gives a small break (<$1) to companies with <500 employees. I'm not sure why 500 was chosen as the demarcation, and franchisees are mighty unhappy about it.

Too early to say what the effect is going to be, I think. Some media reported there was a flood of Seattle restaurants closing due to the coming wage increase, but that appears false: the restaurants themselves have stated otherwise. Conservatives Say $15 Minimum Wage Is Killing Seattle Restaurant Scene, Restaurateurs Disagree | ThinkProgress

One well-known local Seattle restaurant chain is increasing wages in all of its sit-down restaurants to $15 immediately, raising menu prices by 20%, but at the same time is eliminating tipping. At its counter service locations, it is raising wages to $11 and raising prices by 3%. I believe price +3%, if realized, can offset +10% increased labor cost for most restaurants. Ivar's to raise minimum wage to $15, cut tipping

SeaTac raised the minimum wage all the way to $15 in 2013, but only for certain types of businesses related to the airport. The sky hasn't fallen, but I don't think any broad conclusion can be drawn, since those businesses have pretty much captive customers and limited competition.
How Raising The Minimum Wage To $15 Changed These Workers' Lives

Personally, I will wait to see how Washington's experiment works out before deciding whether to support the Oregon effort to place a similar initiative on the ballot. I probably would not support a rapid and large increase; a gradual increase might get my support, if it is shown to work in Seattle.

I have friends who are surviving on minimum wage or close to it. For most of them, a moderate wage increase would be all positive. In most of those situations, staffing is already at minimum levels and hours likely would not be cut appreciably.

I have other friends who were surviving on minimum wage or close to it, until recently. I've seen what a difference a wage increase has made for them.

I have friends who own small retail businesses, and would be burdened by a wage increase. Kind of like my (late) father-in-law, who I mentioned already.

I am pretty aware of the financial models for large retail businesses. None of them will be driven to losses, or even returns below the cost of capital, by labor costs risign 3% above inflation for a few years (leaving out the ones that are headed to bankruptcy anyway). Their profit margins will suffer. The top executives' bonus structure will be revised to compensate. The share prices will be negatively affected, but labor costs are a fairly small factor in these companies' share prices, other factors will be much more important in determining share performance.

The problem is that if your least capable and/or least experienced employees are making minimum wage and you increase their wages to $15 hr, what about your better/best employees who are making $15 an hour now? Do they no longer get rewarded for their better performance or do you have to raise them to $20 hr...and the $20 hr employees to $30 hr, etc....and when the folks who have been paying $2 for a burger have to pay $3, will they not demand an increase as well?

After a brief period of increased buying power, don't the min wage employees end up with the same buying power as before (as all prices will go up to compensate for their increased wages with no increased production)?

Seattle is going to be a blood bath. Again, just watch. The biggest casualties will be the workers themselves. Businesses that can, will move or shut down. No one in their right mind is going to keep their business in Seattle and get killed by $15 min. wage. In the meanwhile, as the min wage goes from $9.47 to $11 for large companies and $10 for small restaurants, customers are reacting to $.50 increases in a Subway sandwich by (1) not buying, and (2) tipping less when they do.

What's that already tell you? And $.50 will not cover the actual cost increase of labor. For every $1 of min wage, add $.50 per hour for associated taxes and insurance.

I'm going to avoid Seattle on my annual Washington trip simply because I don't want to get ass raped when buying anything from a soda or a map, to lunch just because Seattle wants to be progressive.

But you know who will flock to Seattle? Lazy hippies and the LGBT crowd. They just love freebies. To them, this sounds like a great way to stick it to The Man.

This is what I posted earlier. No, you don't raise them to $20 per hr. Their pay gets frozen, and bonus is eliminated. And no, prices go up instantaneously, as in the case with Seattle.

2012 Mc Automation

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/k26g3YqAsfA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

at drive thrus now.

What I think would be interesting to see is some sort of realistic modeling done with no minimum wage; I don't know what tools are available to do that. People like to cite the theory that people would work harder to get more money, and that companies will pay more to retain good workers, but I suspect it doesn't work out that way in real life.

I dunno about that. But I'm pretty sure a lot of people will be very fat and happy to live on a $15/hr. job, knowing they can never make less than that, no matter how low they perform. All they have to do is keep from getting fired. It was a long time ago, but I can remember when I thought a $30k/yr. job meant I was rich. Lots of folks are still on that rung of the economic ladder and don't plan to climb to the next one.

I can use myself as an example.

As I already mentioned, my best employees moved from $8 per hour 5 years ago, to $9, then $10 etc now up to $15. I have given bonuses of up to $4K as well. I have a really high retention rate for employees that have been with me for over 3 months. If I have not fired them, then they are worth keeping, and they are given more pay.

My biggest problem is that my crew all want to work as many hours as they can, and overtime is a burden for me, not for them.

I also explained that this understanding of more pay, more hours etc for better work is essential to making my company work. We have become dominant in our market. Oh, and my pay? I don't take raises or bonuses. I reinvest it all back into the company, which is amassing a warchest to go to battle with in the very near future.

According to these guys, raising the minimum wage has no potential adverse effects. I don't believe them at all though.

I heard a story about a chain restaurant closing all their restaurants impacted in San Francisco, but there is nothing on the internet about it, can't recall the name of the chain, some sort of pseudo-mexican food

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/L8zhNb8ANe8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The average small business owner nets approximately $70K/year.

He has to take all the risk, sign personal guarantees for leases, front the money, pay his employees, etc. etc. etc.

$15/hour is $30,000/year.

Should the minimum wage be higher?
 

I've scanned this thread and it appears to have missed one basic factor. Inflation.

The real dollar value of the minimum wage peaked in 1968 and has been the decline since. It's no surprise that minimum wage workers are struggling.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1429817265.jpg