Should minimum wage be: Higher? Lower? None?
 

I'd like to have a discussion about the various minimum wage initiatives that are being pursued.

For example, in Oregon there is a ballot initiative being pursued, to raise the minimum wage to $15/hour by 2019. Seattle will move the minimum wage to $15 for larger employers by 2017. Currently our minimum wage in Oregon is $9.25/hour, higher than many other states. Info here Minimum Wage Rates for 2015 (Updated February 25, 2015)

There are some obvious arguments. 40 hours/week at the current Oregon minimum wage ($9.25/hour) gets a full time worker $18,500/year gross. Some say a higher minimum wage would move people off public assistance, saving the taxpayer money. On the other hand, many businesses don't want to pay more, and say they will shut down or raise prices if minimum wage goes up. Some say lots of workers aren't worth even minimum wage. Others say the answer is to fire those workers and replace them with workers who are worth it.

What do you think? Should the minimum wage be higher? Why, how much? Should there be any minimum wage at all? Why not allow people to be paid $3/hour, $5/hour? Should it depend on company size, worker age, etc?

Where does $15 hour come from?

Why not make it $30/hour?

so stupid wants 15..
means Dumbo is gonna demand 20..
and Not my job.. thinks he now is worth 25...

yup..good plan..

If you increase minimum wage, you will increase unemployment. Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs, not careers. When I had a minimum wage job, I always had more than one job. Raising minimum wage will result in increased prices; some will want to raise minimum wage to keep up with inflation, which will cause prices to go up, ad infinitum. The only ones that think it is a good idea never ran a business.

I like Switzerland's model.

Very high standard of living with no government-mandated minimum wage.

I have found the best way to retain good employees is to pay them enough that they want to stay.

Remember it will not only affect those making minimum wage today.

Does it really make any sense to turn 1/4 of the private sector jobs in the US into minimum wage jobs?

I've paid over market several times for skilled tradesmen/journeyman and the idea of being held responsible for your work vs pay always leads to going down the road for less pay and fewer responsibilities. I've been told as much because I actually have good relationships with most who have left "Man, I just didn't want it all on my shoulders!"

There should be no min. wage. Where in the Const. does the gov't. get the power to set the price of labor?

No minimum wage.......if someone wants to make burgers for 20+ years then they are due whatever the company wants to pay them. On a couple of the muzzle loader forums, which seem to have a lot of old guys like me, the universal thought is to let the market decide what to pay the workers and managers.

The thoughts in CA and with the folks who control the state government now is to mandate wages and we talked about this last week in the evening computer class I was teaching. I asked each student why they were in class and the universal answer was to get a degree so they could get a better job, make more money and then advance. Several are riding along on the VA assistance (C's for grades) but when it gets close to ending they then get pretty serious (jumps up to A's and B's). They also felt the politicos that push this are doing it for votes since every time they mention it there are news conferences and lots of TV cameras so they look good!

$15/hour is the equivalent to an annual salary of about $30,000 per year. As someone who handles the accounting for many small businesses, I can tell you first hand, a lot of them will suffer or be put out of business if they were required to pay this much. When a small business owner is only netting $40-50K for their efforts, it will be a challenge for many to go from $8.50 or$9.00/hour they pay their part timers now to $15/hour.

I've had small business clients tell me that their $50K net is really just not worth the risk and effort they put forth. Knock that down to $30K net for the owner because they have to pay their staff more and they're just going to shut the doors. They might as well go get a "minimum wage" job and not risk their life savings on running a business.

Asking this group is like saying, "Lets kill the poor".

I think a strong boost in the minimum wage could be a good thing. $12ish. I think $15 is too drastic and would cause distortions in the economy.

When people feel like they are making a lot more money, it makes them open their wallets and spend it. Consumer spending is a good thing.

I do not think this is true. This argument assumes that if someone is flipping burgers they're either a wet-behind-the-ears teenager or being punished for some poor life choice or just not being bright in general.

Not everyone is going to be an engineer, rocket surgeon, or podiatrist.

In reality, there are more people of working age than there are "good-paying" jobs.

Does it really seem fair that someone can work 8 hours a day and yet not make enough for food & housing?

As a mental exercise, imagine what would happen if everyone had a degree. Then what? You'll have guys with college degrees doing menial jobs... Hey wait! We already have that. Hell, some companies require a degree even for low-level jobs, and they get away with it because they know there's a glut of talent.

People say raising the minimum wage will run smaller companies out of business; is any company really entitled to cheap labor? The exact same argument was used in defense of slavery: if slavery were abolished, it would put plantations out of business and make the US economically vulnerable to other countries.

If your company can't afford to pay your employees enough, maybe you shouldn't be in business.

I also don't think you can have a discussion about minimum wage and the employment rate without bringing up the topic of the visa programs to bring in (legal) low-wage indentured servants from other countries to bridge imaginary skill gaps.

So long as there is no other source of labor to skew the market, I could stand behind a no minimum wage.

Its that the market gets distorted with ultra cheap labor, like illegals.

I don't think most business fully thinks thru what it would be like without a minimum wage. Fruit pickers, meat packers, and other hard or manual labor would be paying out the wazoo to get people once you take away the illegals.

Its like the STEM gripes. There are plenty of PhDs out there. Nobody wants to pay for them, so bring on the HB1s.

Its not going to matter in a decade anyway. Once the boomer peak hits industry are going to be forking over cash to find bodies. It will be a workers paradise. The millennials will get there day. Too bad I'm an X'er that's just a bit to old to take advantage :mad:.

The problem is peoples expectations. They want a high wage for doing nothing, they want to pay very little for goods and services (though I have to admit I would have a hard time paying $15 for a meal at a fast food place when I can get a better meal for the same money).

The H1 cap will continually be raised to put downward pressure on wages, and the range of vocations will be expanded.

My waitress will get be making about 25 bucks an hour similar to an x ray tech or any qualify skilled folks. Who comes up with this stuff anyway?

I vote for no 15 bucks min wage. Cost of living, if fine a few %. There are those who complain about the cost of living is too much in places like socal, then they can go to Kansas, AZ or any other affordable place. Hop on the bus.

All the illegals are soon to demand that too if not already. I hear they want 12 bucks an hour standing at the corners of Home depots. There's a lil' trailer that tell them to demand a certain amount. Those people need to be shot on site.

I can't seem to warp my head around guys making 15 bucks + tips for washing my car. All added up is more then 20 an hour? More on the weekends

First of all, I think we should clear some things up.

Many "illegals" are working here legally in agriculture, food service, hospitality, etc. Just because they are not American citizens does not automatically make them "illegal". They pay taxes, and employers take out witholding for SS, etc.

Many migrant workers also make far more than minimum wage. That is because they are paid by the piece, not by the hour. It is a fair system that compensates higher performance with higher pay, while paying less to the lazy unproductive worker. They are not stupid. They go where they will make the most amount of money.

If you work in ANY company that has minimum wage workers, then you will see less available to pay your raises, bonuses, etc when minimum wage is increased.

I have a crew of around 12 to 14 workers. Since we started over 4 years ago, I have paid over 14 raises. I have lost track of the number of bonuses. Probably 20 or so. Minimum wage was around $8 per hour. Everyone was making money, and our vendors were keeping their prices low enough to make everything make sense. This understanding that I will reward good employees with higher pay is an essential part of my business. The relationship with my best employees is what makes the company go.

Then last year the minimum wage went to $9. Everyone had to raise their prices. When the minimum goes up, your LEAST PRODUCTIVE EMPLOYEE, the one with zero experience, lazy, spends all day sitting around or on his cell phone, gets an automatic raise. This also raises payroll tax, insurance, and workman's comp.

Since last year, when the minimum wage went up, I have paid zero raises, and zero bonuses. Why? Because of the cascading effect of the mandatory minimum wage. If you notice, a #1 Value Meal at your favorite fast food joint is approaching $10 now.

So this fallacy that raising the mininum wage will give the entry level worker more money, or make him "feel like he has more money" is just flat out ridiculous. It's the type of idea that pops into the head of someone who has zero experience and just wants feel-good, no-think laws.

If you eliminate minimum wage, then the first thing that will happen is that inflation will drop. Then the lazy worker will realize that he's got to treat a job like a job, not as a right. And the best of the employee labor pool will be rewarded with the highest pay. If you eliminate government regulation in the labor market, the best will rise, and the worst will fall. Everyone is kept at a false equal as minimum wage increases. And we all pay for that.

Higher minimum wage, means more payroll taxes for the government. I question the government watching out for the workers or there own pockets.

And since California ag produces everything from lettuce and tomatoes for your taco, hamburger, or fancy steak house salad, you will all see what happens when the California minimum wage increases to $10. You'll be paying $7 for a watermelon or a pumpkin, and $4 for a bag of lettuce, or $2 for a taco at Taco Bell.

A higher minimum wage would help me more than hurt me. Put more money in the pockets of potential customers, I have more customers, I make more money. Raise it.

So basically, these protesters standing on street corners in front of fast food joints demanding thier $15 an hour because "we just don't understand how hard it is to live properly these days on anything less". Are these employees wanting to work 50% harder for thier wages, or do they feel entitled instantly to a wage that many people have worked for years to achieve ? I think a great way of throwing the economy into a tailspin would be to raise the minimum wage all in one fell swoop....just watch the small businesses close, or lay off unneeded workers to afford it.

what about tying CEO and BOD compensation to a fixed multiple of the lowest paid employee?
that could free up incentive cash to raise the lowest wage earners.

this does nothing for small companies though-

There's so much injustice and income inequality.

Why not have the Government set all wages?

That's an even dumber idea.

Here's an example: Last year, for the first time ever, I turned away entry level workers. I used to always give an ambitious high schooler a shot at a part time job. If you do your homework first, then I'll let you work. It always seemed to work out well. I had dads who wanted their sons to be responsible show up every season and ask me to hire thier kids.

This year I say "no". We have no entry level jobs. Experience required. That's because my labor costs just went up 17% due to the mandatory minimum wage increase.

So they ask "where do I go to get experience?". I say "not my problem". Maybe go ask Obama that question. He doesn't have any experience either....

Close the borders, send anyone who is not a citizen home. There will suddenly be lots of job openings in low wage positions (and in ICE and the Border Patrol). Labor/Market forces will increase wages. Then reduce the amount that all income based social welfare programs pay by 50% (SNAP, WIC, EIC, Section 8, Federal college loans and grants, etc.). There will suddenly be lots of folks who want to work to match the increase in jobs.

Lazy, tattooed, "poor me" White guys make poor employees compared to a motivated Vato.

Yes, it seems like cutting the wages of others is always popular. Maybe everyone should just make $15hr. ..and all drive a Kia. Why is one person's labor worth more than someone else's? Oh yeah, that has been tried and it didn't works so well.

No allowing the free market to set the value of one's labor is akin to slavery.

Only because they are not equally "motivated". I have always found hunger to be extremely motivating.

Submitted for your consideration.

If the minimum wage was $15, maybe this nice Northern lady would have gotten bacon on her burger:

Woman Sentenced For Shooting Fast-Food Restaurant Over Missing Bacon | Northville, MI Patch

I honestly don't know. I always take a pass on questionable guys. They take a toll on crew morale with their self-pity, poor work ethic, etc.

I hire guys who have a lot of self pride in their work. So much so, that I knew last year when one of them backed the forklift into a light pole, there was nothing that I could say to make him try harder to not do it again. He tortured himself for weeks over it. You hire some shlub from County lockup, and he'll blame me for putting a light pole where he was driving, or think nothing of being fired or quit. It's always MY fault, the employer, for his problems. I don't need that sort of crap. Instead, I hire guys who love to work, and are happy when customers are happy. These tend to be more than not, Mexican guys or really down to Earth white guys that want a second job and enjoy an employer who shows them respect and appreciation.

I laughed out loud. And couldn't have said it better.

Well then, we will just have to agree to disagree. Making the assumption that they are stupid, made poor choices or are kids is not what I am doing.

If it is a minimum wage job, it is a job an employer is not willing to pay much to have done. If it goes from $9 to $15, does that mean that all the people who had formerly made $15 get $21 now? If not, why not?

Does the employer eat this added expense? No they do not. They do the job with fewer employees, they raise prices or most likely both. If they can't do that, they close their doors. It does not necessarily mean a business model is not viable if it can't survive when labor costs are artificially increased 65%. It more likely indicates that they were operating on a margin narrow enough that they can't absorb the additional expenses.

Unless every book on economics I have perused is wrong, raising minimum wage will almost certainly result in fewer entry level jobs.

For example, if wages go from $9 to $15, and your payroll for two weeks is $9000, you get 1000 hours of work from the lower pay rate, 600 hours of work at the higher one. You are going to either have to cut hours for each employee, eliminate employees or raise your prices to cover the difference. Problem with the third option is people may already be paying as much as they will for your widgets.

A guy was mowing the lawn at one of my houses two years ago for $65 and wanted $70. He wasn't really doing a very good job and complained a lot about how poor he was...and how lucky I am (looking for a tip/raise). I bought a nicer mower and started doing it myself. The new next door neighbor came over last weekend and offered to do it for $45. He has 5 kids and one in the oven. I told him that if he did as good a job as I do (better than the previous "professional"), I would pay him $50. Of course he accepted. At $70, there is no job (I have to make over $100 to pay $70 after taxes), at $50, there is and $100-$200 a month cash will go a long way out here in the country.

A good high school buddy didn't like mowing lawns, but was pretty good at hitting up the local realtors to have him maintain the yards in their vacant mcmansion listings. In 1988 $50 to mow a big lawn was still good money. He subbed it out to kids for $25 and kept $25 for himself. Never had to mow a lawn and made plenty of money doing it.

This issue is another failure on the part of our government.
They should have index min. wage to the rate of inflation.
As they should have with the max. income limits as it relates to taxation when you collect S.S.

In life, there are decisions and consequences. If you make poor decisions, you pay the corresponding consequences. That way life teaches us NOT to make poor choices.
And society grows and improves and we all benefit.

OR AT LEAST THAT IS HOW IT USED TO BE!!!!

Nowadays the bleeding hearts have legislated out nearly all consequences and society is going downhill because of that.
Road to hell, good intentions. STOOPID.

Workers should be compensated relative to their contributions to the company and to the rarity and value of their skills.

If a worker has specialized skills that very few possess, and those skills create significant revenue, then that worker deserves a very high rate of pay.

But if a worker possesses only average, ordinary skills that most anyone off the street has, and those skills generate a relatively small income stream, then that worker deserves to be paid very little.

Just like they told EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US when we were young:

pay attention, get good grades, get a good education and life will be better when you grow up.

If you did not listen to them it's your fault. Not mine.

If working smarter and harder did not pay better...no one would.