Originally Posted by fintstone (Post 8589710)

If working smarter and harder did not pay better...no one would.

Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 8589584)

Well then, we will just have to agree to disagree. Making the assumption that they are stupid, made poor choices or are kids is not what I am doing.

If it is a minimum wage job, it is a job an employer is not willing to pay much to have done. If it goes from $9 to $15, does that mean that all the people who had formerly made $15 get $21 now? If not, why not?

Does the employer eat this added expense? No they do not. They do the job with fewer employees, they raise prices or most likely both. If they can't do that, they close their doors. It does not necessarily mean a business model is not viable if it can't survive when labor costs are artificially increased 65%. It more likely indicates that they were operating on a margin narrow enough that they can't absorb the additional expenses.

Unless every book on economics I have perused is wrong, raising minimum wage will almost certainly result in fewer entry level jobs.

For example, if wages go from $9 to $15, and your payroll for two weeks is $9000, you get 1000 hours of work from the lower pay rate, 600 hours of work at the higher one. You are going to either have to cut hours for each employee, eliminate employees or raise your prices to cover the difference. Problem with the third option is people may already be paying as much as they will for your widgets.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 8589729)

Sad that you have such a low opinion of humanity.

Originally Posted by Mike80911 (Post 8589723)

I have eight employees at my café. I start everyone at minimum wage which in NY is $8.75. Once they have been with me a while and prove their value I raise their salary. My highest paid employee is currently making $12 per hour plus tips. If the minimum wage is increased to $15 per hour I will be faced with two choices lay off half my staff and only use 1 person per shift or close the doors completely. How does this help get people off of government assistance? Either 4 people will become unemployed or all 8 will. This is a small business that I keep basically because my wife enjoys it. There is really not much money in it so I have no problem closing the doors as I have other incomes that pay my bills.
Why not cut out some the taxes I pay on each of my employees and require the business owner to pass this money on to the employees.? I would gladly do that and if the powers that be are truly concerned with helping those workers they should be glad to do it.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 8589729)

Sad that you have such a low opinion of humanity.

Originally Posted by dan88911 (Post 8589921)

The minimum wage should have reached $21.72 an hour in 2012 if it kept up with increases in worker productivity, according to a March study by the Center for Economic and Policy Research. While advancements in technology have increased the amount of goods and services that can be produced in a set amount of time, wages have remained relatively flat, the study points out.....

Originally Posted by rusnak (Post 8589399)

First of all, I think we should clear some things up.

Many "illegals" are working here legally in agriculture, food service, hospitality, etc. Just because they are not American citizens does not automatically make them "illegal". They pay taxes, and employers take out witholding for SS, etc.

Many migrant workers also make far more than minimum wage. That is because they are paid by the piece, not by the hour. It is a fair system that compensates higher performance with higher pay, while paying less to the lazy unproductive worker. They are not stupid. They go where they will make the most amount of money.

If you work in ANY company that has minimum wage workers, then you will see less available to pay your raises, bonuses, etc when minimum wage is increased.

I have a crew of around 12 to 14 workers. Since we started over 4 years ago, I have paid over 14 raises. I have lost track of the number of bonuses. Probably 20 or so. Minimum wage was around $8 per hour. Everyone was making money, and our vendors were keeping their prices low enough to make everything make sense. This understanding that I will reward good employees with higher pay is an essential part of my business. The relationship with my best employees is what makes the company go.

Then last year the minimum wage went to $9. Everyone had to raise their prices. When the minimum goes up, your LEAST PRODUCTIVE EMPLOYEE, the one with zero experience, lazy, spends all day sitting around or on his cell phone, gets an automatic raise. This also raises payroll tax, insurance, and workman's comp.

Since last year, when the minimum wage went up, I have paid zero raises, and zero bonuses. Why? Because of the cascading effect of the mandatory minimum wage. If you notice, a #1 Value Meal at your favorite fast food joint is approaching $10 now.

So this fallacy that raising the mininum wage will give the entry level worker more money, or make him "feel like he has more money" is just flat out ridiculous. It's the type of idea that pops into the head of someone who has zero experience and just wants feel-good, no-think laws.

If you eliminate minimum wage, then the first thing that will happen is that inflation will drop. Then the lazy worker will realize that he's got to treat a job like a job, not as a right. And the best of the employee labor pool will be rewarded with the highest pay. If you eliminate government regulation in the labor market, the best will rise, and the worst will fall. Everyone is kept at a false equal as minimum wage increases. And we all pay for that.

Originally Posted by look 171 (Post 8590166)

If a business decides to hire people from that group, then they are breaking the law and I am sure the IRS will love to have that income tax from that group.

Originally Posted by jyl (Post 8590155)

The red line is the top 1%. That is roughly $400K+ annual income, judging from this tool
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html?_r=0 There is data somewhere that will give a more precise number, if needed.

The yellow line is the top 20%. That is roughly $100K and higher annual income. $100K isn't really a "Wall Street" income; only junior Wall Streeters are making that little.

The light blue line is in the top 60% but below the top 40%. That is roughly $40K to $60K annual income. That is basically the median household income in the US.

The dark blue line is the bottom 20%. That is roughly $20K annual income and below. That is the minimum wage group, among others.