How would you smart guys interpret this Carfax

[rammstein]

CARFAX Vehicle History Report for this 2011 BMW 1M: WBSUR9C59BVS96556

I don't want to color anybody's answers with what I am thinking. If you were interested in a car and saw this Carfax, what would it make you think?

[biosurfer1]

Looks fine to me...are you concerned about something specific? Short ownership intervals?

edit: ah, I see it now. The PA, then offered for sale in NC then back to PA, then to IL is a bit weird, but being a CPO BMW I bet it's just the way things were reported to DMV that make it look odd.

[81Kremer930]

They drove it 1800 miles in two weeks?! There's something funny with that... I'd like to see the transfers from dealer to dealer. That cannot be right.

[craigster59]

The ownership intervals are short, some really short. That's the only red flag I see.

[HardDrive]

Meh. Car got traded around, looks like the it was a 'managers car' and got driven by the last dealer. I don't see anything too odd.

[rammstein]

What bothers me are the following things:

1) Carfax says 1 owner. How is this possible based upon what the report itself shows?

2) The car was CPO'd then sat unsold for an entire year, then sold, got like 1,800 miles put on it in 2 weeks, and turns up for sale in FL? (again, somehow Carfax says 1-owner at the top, which makes no sense)

3) If you look to the left, you'll see that the carfax report is provided by Champion Motors of Pompano. They are not the seller. The seller is a small outfit that sells used Porsches, BMWs, Ferraris, etc. I called the selling dealer today and asked if he could clarify how he got it, and he didn't know off the top of his head. This is ok, as he is a salesman and it was his cell phone. I asked him to get it figured out if he could before I get there tomorrow to have a look. He said he thought it might have come from Champion, which would make sense based on the carfax. But I just don't get how the car got from Chicago to FL plus 1,800 miles in 2 weeks and turned in to a different dealer without Carfax saying it has been more than 1 owner.

4) Supposedly the dealer in Chicago (Perillo) is shady as hell and has their own in house body-shop and will represent accident cars as like-new. No matter what, if I got serious I'd have a PPI done by someone with a paint meter and try to be sure about the car's history. I mean,if they respray the lower chin up front that's one thing, as they all get gouged down where you can't really see from being so low, but if it has respray on any panels I'm walking. I might walk anyhow, it just bugs me that the history is so odd.


Do you think if I called or stopped in at Champion they'd be willing to tell me how they got the car even though it's not there anymore? They'd have no incentive to do so, except just being kind humans (which I don't generally associate with car dealers)

[aigel]

Traded around for sure. Also could have been a lemon, pushed around.

I don't know the details but let me tell you that I definitely would NOT buy this car. Maybe in 10 years when it is $5k, but it probably still demands a pretty good price - not worth the risk if you can get a no-stories car elsewhere (how about from a private 1st owner!) for about the same money.

G

[rammstein]

Originally Posted by aigel

Traded around for sure. Also could have been a lemon, pushed around.

I don't know the details but let me tell you that I definitely would NOT buy this car. Maybe in 10 years when it is $5k, but it probably still demands a pretty good price - not worth the risk if you can get a no-stories car elsewhere (how about from a private 1st owner!) for about the same money.

G

Part of the pricing on it is because it has 2.5 years left of BMW CPO warranty on it, combined with the mileage (and the unfortunate dealer profit). From a private seller without the CPO, it would be about $5k less.

BTW- in 10 years I doubt it will be worth $5k. They all sell for more than original MSRP now, 4 years and maybe 25k miles later. They only made 740 of these for the US. Part of my logic for buying a 1M is I expect depreciation to be minimal. I don't think its gonna be worth MORE, or even the same, but if it only loses $15k of value over the next 6 years that's really not bad at all.

Assuming for a moment that you bought into my financial assessment, if a PPI shows no bodywork and reveals no issues, and you at least have the piece of mind of a real warranty, would you still bail? I'm trying to be disciplined...

[Neilk]

go to the BMW boards and start looking around for 1 series and lemon and see if it looks like someone might have traded it in to get rid of it. If there were only 740 made, there might be a chance you can find the original owner. I am just assuming as it would seem to me that whoever buys a 1M would probably be forum user too.

[rammstein]

Oh, I am all over the 1M board:
BMW 1M Forum / 1-series M Coupe Forum - BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)

Great group over there. A lot of the time they can tell me who the owner is/was, but no such luck this time. Not yet at least. There's a few tricks remaining that I can try.

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by 81Kremer930

They drove it 1800 miles in two weeks?! There's something funny with that... I'd like to see the transfers from dealer to dealer. That cannot be right.

I have driven coast to coast in 3.5 days several times.
Dont sweat the mileage and the time.

[rammstein]

In and of itself, no big deal. But would you buy a car, drive it 1800 miles I'm 15 days, then trade it in?

[afterburn 549]

flip it?
dealership?

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by rammstein

In and of itself, no big deal. But would you buy a car, drive it 1800 miles I'm 15 days, then trade it in?

I know one guy that would buy a nice pickup in AZ and drive it back to the rust belt and sell a used rust free pickup for a profit and the profit was his airplane ride home. He would get a "free" trip back to see his parents. Sometime he made enough to put some money in the bank.

[81Kremer930]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

I have driven coast to coast in 3.5 days several times.
Dont sweat the mileage and the time.

It was for sale during this time, a rare car like this one is not a typical demo, really not a demo at all. It seems strange that it would sit for a year, then have been sold(dealer transfer, hence the one-owner status), then driven 1800 miles and sold again to another dealer. I guess it's possible, but not likely. BMW should be able to give you the scoop.

[rammstein]

Guy on the 1 series board works at a dealer and was able to tell me this:

Production date was 2011/09

MSRP was $53,760 (before destination)
Options:
ZC2 - Convenience Package (alarm, comfort access, PDC)
ZP2 - Premium Package 2 which includes 7KB - Nav w/ enhanced BT
494 - Heated front seats
655 - Satellite radio
688 - HK Sound
6NR - BMW Apps

Retail sale was on 11/19/11 so factory warranty would expire on 11/19/15
72 month/100K CPO (done at Perillo BMW) brings that out to 11/19/17.

Wholesale dealer is listed as Tom Hesser BMW of Scranton, PA...they did the PDI on 10/24/11 with 1 mile on the clock. It looks like it was then traded to Perillo as they are the retail dealer who sold it to the first owner on 11/19/11

Break in service was done at Daniels BMW in Allentown, PA on 12/22/11 with 478 miles on it.

Next service was done at the same dealer on 11/21/12 for "Snap-in adapter / telephone cradle incorrect connection /contact" with 4,306 miles.

Next was done at BMW of the Main Line in Bala Cynwyd, PA...standard oil service at 8,325 miles along with the battery cable recall.

Last one was done at Perillo in Chicago: Brake fluid flush, wipers, microfilter, "Sealing ring (O-ring) of refrigerant line Leaking", "Key battery, remote control permanent failure" and oil service done on 12/16/14 with 9,542 miles.

So that is as much as BMW can tell me, I think.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by rammstein

Part of the pricing on it is because it has 2.5 years left of BMW CPO warranty on it, combined with the mileage (and the unfortunate dealer profit). From a private seller without the CPO, it would be about $5k less.

BTW- in 10 years I doubt it will be worth $5k. They all sell for more than original MSRP now, 4 years and maybe 25k miles later. They only made 740 of these for the US. Part of my logic for buying a 1M is I expect depreciation to be minimal. I don't think its gonna be worth MORE, or even the same, but if it only loses $15k of value over the next 6 years that's really not bad at all.

Assuming for a moment that you bought into my financial assessment, if a PPI shows no bodywork and reveals no issues, and you at least have the piece of mind of a real warranty, would you still bail? I'm trying to be disciplined...

Ok, that is good background. The longer you keep the car the less important this shuffeling history will likely be. That said, it made you pause - it will undoubtedly make the next owner pause as well. And reduce the number of buyers = reduce the price. I'd still shy away from this.

Have you dealt with selling a special interest car? I have sold two 911 and both of them were 20+ years old. The number of "enthusiasts" that expected a mint car for $15k was staggering. I'd hate to deal with those morons and have to explain to them why some shuffling during the first few years of the car isn't a big issue.

G

[rammstein]

I've only sold cars twice, both to forum members, and so they were good transactions because everyone was above board. But your point is a valid one.

[Brian 162]

I was looking at a Carfax for an 07 Vette. It had 8 owners in total 3 of which in the span of a year and a half. It raised a flag with me thinking something mechanical that can't be figured out.

[onewhippedpuppy]

The Carfax is worth the paper it is printed on. There, I solved your paradox.

The fact that people make major purchase decisions on this service simply staggers me. A huge number of things don't get reported to Carfax. Much of what gets reported to Carfax is misinterpreted by their algorithms, like this being a "one owner" car. It is WORTHLESS. With all that said, nothing on there is scary. It likely bounced between dealerships through wholesale transactions.

Get a good impartial PPI, and if you like it, buy it. Carfax should be a tiny factor in your purchase decision.