Miata vs S2000 vs. Corvette/Trans Am/Camaro. What are the fundamental differences?

[ted]

Originally Posted by masraum

The S2k must not be too slow. I think their 0-60 was around 5.0 and their top speed was around 155. They'll keep up with a 3.2L 911 unless it's been modified.

As an every day driver in city traffic I need torque to move the car.
The S2000 is fast but it has to be reved to 9k or so to be fast.
The old Vette pulls from 1800 rpm in traffic on the freeway.
On track here's a nice S2000 with some front and rear aero as seen from my C5 Z06.
https://youtu.be/ixENUntyMRk?t=6m8s

[sugarwood]

DanielDudley, that was a fun read. Thanks.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I imagine that an S2000 would get old driving stoplight to stoplight around town. My RX8 was similar in regards to no torque down low, you had to always keep the engine wrapped up to get any power out of it.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by ted

As an every day driver in city traffic I need torque to move the car.
The S2000 is fast but it has to be reved to 9k or so to be fast.
The old Vette pulls from 1800 rpm in traffic on the freeway.
On track here's a nice S2000 with some front and rear aero as seen from my C5 Z06.
https://youtu.be/ixENUntyMRk?t=6m8s

Yes, for driving in heavy traffic or stop and go traffic, a torque monster will be easier to drive than a high revving low torque vehicle, but then so is an automatic trans. Fortunately, my first miata that wasn't a turbo had the larger motor and was pretty torquey for a small, light weight 4 cyl vehicle. I've also been lucky in that my commute has almost always been at times that were outside of the main rush hour traffic by a couple of hours so I've managed to avoid the worst of the traffic.

If you're buying a sports car that you're going to have to drive in heavy traffic, then you'll probably have to adjust your criteria to something different than if you would never or rarely get caught in heavy traffic.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I've driven multiple generations of Miata and always thought they had plenty of torque to feel quick around town.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I've driven multiple generations of Miata and always thought they had plenty of torque to feel quick around town.

I've always felt they were zippy enough up to 60-70 for any driving, but I don't have much seat time in the really early 1.6L cars. I understand they had less power, but were more rev happy and were the lightest weight, so I would assume they would be adequate. I don't remember thinking they felt slow, and that's something that makes an impression on me, when a car feels like it won't get out of its own way.

[nynor]

wow, the s2000's really are spendy. they want 12K+ for an S2000 with 130K+ miles, pitted paint, and the fast/furious treatment. i had no idea.

[berettafan]

Miata and 911 are soooo different at ax. 911 spoils you with power out of turns where miata leaves you looking impotent if you drive it in the same way.

[sugarwood]

I test drove a 2nd gen Miata this week.
I now what they mean by "aggressively drive it, but still be under the speed limit."

The car just felt light. Hood and doors were light as a feather.

This is not a floaty luxo car for women or people who drink coffee on their morning commute.
The steering was like the 911 steering: very tight and responsive.
Suspension was firm. I bet you aggressively carve turns with this car.
Exhaust wasn't exactly silent.

The gear shift was perfect.
Blows away the 915 shifter.
Zero play. Very short throw.
The stick snapped hard back to center like a rock.

At only 140 HP, a very noticeable the lack of power compared to the 911. Is this what a 150HP 944 feels like?
I was downshifting to keep the RPM's above 3000, which helped make the car more responsive.
But, Since it was a test drive of someone else's car, I never got it above 4000rpm. So I am sure there was HP left on the table. I think redline on the gauge was like 7200rpm peak HP.
Like a 911 (and unlike a V8), you need to be in the right gear to optimize performance.
And this makes driving this car more engaging, which is the whole point of not driving an automatic Camry, right?

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I test drove a 2nd gen Miata this week. I now get it,

This^

Three friends have purchased a Miata after driving mine. A real eye-opener of how fun driving can be.

Took mine to Mt. Rainier twice in the last few days. Absolutely the perfect car for the twisty roads, top off for an unobstructed view of the scenery.
Trunk is big enough (barely) for a couple day packs and hiking shoes.

Worthless tidbit about Mt. Rainier: You can coast from the Paradise parking lot, fourteen miles, all the way past Longmire, to Kautz Creek. I did this a few years ago in the 912E, engine off, all 14 miles. Went around some corners pretty fast to maintain momentum, but its downhill all the way.

[onewhippedpuppy]

If your only complaint about the Miata is power, they are easy to find supercharged or turbocharged for not much money. Problem solved!

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

... they are easy to find supercharged or turbocharged for not much money.

The engine block is iron. Bulletproof. Same block used in Mazda's trucks.

Why didn't they use an aluminum block to save weight? The designers knew that getting the top brass to green-light a diminutive two-seat convertible sports car for production was going to be difficult, (the MG was long gone, and many thought there was no market for this type of car) and costs had to be very tightly controlled.
Designing and manufacturing an entirely new engine for the limited production numbers anticipated would have blown the budget, and therefore, the entire project out the door. The solution was to modify the existing truck engine with dual overhead cams.

Had they known how wildly successful the Miata would become, maybe they would have sprung for an aluminum engine. Good thing they didn't, for all the guys bolting superchargers and turbochargers to them without any internal modifications.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I test drove a 2nd gen Miata this week.

The car just felt light. Hood and doors were light as a feather.

The hoods on all miatas (definitely the 1st and 2nd gen, but I think the 3rd gen too) are made of aluminum.

I was downshifting to keep the RPM's above 3000, which helped make the car more responsive.
Like a 911 (and unlike a V8), you need to be in the right gear to optimize performance.

Right, if you want it to be responsive, you need to keep the revs in the sweet range. You can short shift if are just cruising.

[look 171]

Now take that and x3=S2000. a little more high strung

[sugarwood]

Since it was a test drive of someone else's car, I never got it above 4000rpm
So I am sure there was HP left on the table.
I think redline on the gauge was like 7200rpm peak HP.

[LWJ]

After driving my brother's 2nd gen Miata he said "that is the highest this car has ever been revved." How sad is that? He owned the car for years and never hit the rev-limiter? I drove it for 10 minutes and found it right off.

Agree with above. Low torque cars need to be would up a little bit.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Since it was a test drive of someone else's car, I never got it above 4000rpm

Was that the miata? Wow, yeah, you may have well just been idling the thing around.

Originally Posted by LWJ

After driving my brother's 2nd gen Miata he said "that is the highest this car has ever been revved." How sad is that? He owned the car for years and never hit the rev-limiter? I drove it for 10 minutes and found it right off.

Agree with above. Low torque cars need to be would up a little bit.

Yeah, very sad. Those are the folks that create and hold up traffic and drive me bonkers. It's very sad for a spirited car to be wasted.

[look 171]

The S2000 is more high strung but not sure if its worth two time more in price. I never kept up with the pricing, but people are saying good one are in the 15000 range and the 2nd gen Miata is, around 8k? Miata is hard to beat for that kinda of bucks

[sugarwood]

The basic Miata door cards remind me of the 911 RS door cards that lots of people seem to lust after.

[ted]

seems you can make the new Camaro push.
https://youtu.be/M34f1-A_NFA