Why does Boxster get a lukewarm reception?

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by masraum

So I assume the whole desnorkeling process is completely independent of the Spyder Vent insert process. You could potentially do both or either.

How long does it take to do and undo the desnorkel mod? It looks like it's about 10-15 mins if that unless you are going to put a mesh in place. Of course, with the Spyder vent insert, I wouldn't think the mesh would be necessary.

OK, I've also looked at a couple of explanations of the desnorkel process, and it seems there is a huge restrictor plate that is designed to prevent item intrusion (ie cigarette butts) and an actual snorkel. Is the goal to actually desnorkel or deplate? I would think the snorkel would be good, but the plate would be bad.

You could easily "desnork" the car while installing the Spyder vents. Both procedures are very simple -- 2 out of 10 on the difficulty scale. You're right that "desnork" or "desnorkeling" is probably a misnomer because what's removed is the big restrictor plate, not the snorkel itself. There might be owners who remove the snorkel as well, but I don't think I see the point in that; besides, the fine mesh that most drivers install during the desnork is attached to the base of the snorkel IIRC.

Here is the vent with the grilles removed but the restrictor plate still attached (note: this is not my car but a picture I found on the internet). As you can see, it covers the entire vent opening; I'm not sure how ANY air gets through:



And this is the same vent with the restrictor plate removed. That oval opening is the bottom of the snorkel, which I see no reason for removing.



I would attach the mesh even if getting the Spyder vents. The Spyder vents have very large hexagonal openings within its "mesh" (I actually think it's all just plastic, alas), and I could see debris getting through.

Let me know if you have any further questions about the procedure, but once you get in there, I think you'll see it's pretty straightforward and self-explanatory.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

Oh wow. Thank you for the information; this sounds amazing. I might have to look into picking one up; I'm especially intrigued by cam deviation...

Are all these reading capabilities available on the "Enthusiast Kit"? Pricing actually isn't too bad.

As far as I know I think the enthusiast kit only limits the number of VINs that you can use to three, but double check the site. They have a pretty good FAQ.

Originally Posted by masraum

I've got the factory sport exhaust. I really like how I can drive my car in quiet mode or loud mode as the mood suits. (actually, I can't control the exhaust independently because I have Sport-Chrono, so to get the louder exhaust, I have to go to sport mode which gives me the remapped throttle) I mostly drive in quiet mode with the missus, but not always. I usually go to loud mode when in a busy parking lot. Keeps cars and pedestrians with integrated smart phone more alert on a quick throttle blip. If I see a cop, I may go into quiet mode if I'm not already. The sound in quiet mode is good. The sound in loud mode is great. I like the ability to switch back and forth at will.

Mods that I'd like to do are TB and plenum with a tune, and torque biasing diff. I find that at times I get some wheel spin that I don't like. On my previous car, a factory turbo miata, I had a torque biasing diff, and I liked what seemed like a bit more predictable traction and predictable behavior with it. At least now that we are in the summer months, I have more traction than when it's cold out.

I factory short shift kit might be nice too. The Spyder vents would also be something that I'd consider as well as some 18" wheels if they were lighter than my 19".

Don't waste your time on the SSK, it's a marginal improvement at best. Still fairly vague and not very precise. Get a 2010 GT3 shifter or a Numeric, both have a reduced throw comparable to the SSK but metal bushings so they are much more precise. The GT3 is about the same price as the SSK, the Numeric is pricey.

[rusnak]

Lots of great info here!

I need to remove that intake plate. My biggest complaint, after all of the weight and power steering, is the shifting. The shifter balks and is just garbage. I need to upgrade.

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Lots of great info here!

I need to remove that intake plate. My biggest complaint, after all of the weight and power steering, is the shifting. The shifter balks and is just garbage. I need to upgrade.

That's interesting. I rather like the shifter on the Cayman S, and the Boxsters I've driven seem fine, too.

Of course, my previous P-cars were 944s, which aren't exactly known for razor-sharp shifts...

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

That's interesting. I rather like the shifter on the Cayman S, and the Boxsters I've driven seem fine, too.

Of course, my previous P-cars were 944s, which aren't exactly known for razor-sharp shifts...

Compared to a well set up Wevo shifter in a 911, the cable shifter in the Cayman is really vague, and engages with a limp bouncy click, not the rifle bolt feel that you get with a Wevo.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

You could easily "desnork" the car while installing the Spyder vents. Both procedures are very simple -- 2 out of 10 on the difficulty scale. You're right that "desnork" or "desnorkeling" is probably a misnomer because what's removed is the big restrictor plate, not the snorkel itself.

I would attach the mesh even if getting the Spyder vents. The Spyder vents have very large hexagonal openings within its "mesh" (I actually think it's all just plastic, alas), and I could see debris getting through.

Good info, thanks tons.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Don't waste your time on the SSK, it's a marginal improvement at best. Still fairly vague and not very precise. Get a 2010 GT3 shifter or a Numeric, both have a reduced throw comparable to the SSK but metal bushings so they are much more precise. The GT3 is about the same price as the SSK, the Numeric is pricey.

Good stuff. I'd seen the GT3 piece and the SSK, and thought that maybe you needed both, but sounds like the GT3 piece is kind of like a phase 2 or 3 to the SSK being a phase 1 upgrade. I'm not actually unhappy with the way my car shifts, but the shifter in my last miata was pretty impressive when I put a short shift kit in it.

Originally Posted by rusnak

Lots of great info here!

I need to remove that intake plate. My biggest complaint, after all of the weight and power steering, is the shifting. The shifter balks and is just garbage. I need to upgrade.

Interesting, like I said, my shifter really doesn't bother me.

Originally Posted by CJFusco

That's interesting. I rather like the shifter on the Cayman S, and the Boxsters I've driven seem fine, too.

Ditto, the shifter in my Boxster seems pretty good to me.

Originally Posted by rusnak

Compared to a well set up Wevo shifter in a 911, the cable shifter in the Cayman is really vague, and engages with a limp bouncy click, not the rifle bolt feel that you get with a Wevo.

Maybe that's the thing. The shifter in my Boxster isn't near as positive as my last miata was. The factory shifter in the Mazdaspeed miata 6 speed isn't great, but there's a short shift kit for them that isn't just a shorter rod, but actually changes the fulcrum point of the shifter while retaining the stock rod height. The shift really does feel like a rifle bolt, but in that trans, the shifter actually bolts into the top of the transmission tailshaft. I've always assumed that when working with cables that are far removed from the trans, it will only shift so good, and my boxster is pretty darn good to me.

[onewhippedpuppy]

In addition to the shifter, fresh OEM fluid can smooth out shifts quite a bit as well.

[rusnak]

I should try fluid then. But I think the solution will be a new shifter design.

My '11 Cayman S has around 33K miles on it. It's really noticible when jumping right out of the 911 and into the Cayman. The first reaction is that the controls on the Cayman are really poor. Seating position, steering is heavy, shift and throttle are like you're in an Audi or BMW sled compared (this is the key) to an air-cooled 911.

[DWBOX2000]

Back to the original topic. I can't add anything that hasn't been said in defense of the boxster. I think Porsche got it right with the 986/987. Is the IMS bearing an issue. Maybe? I replaced mine at 50k with an LN. Dual Bearing replaced was in perfect shape. I unfortunately drank the cool aid.

As far as worrying what others think, that is just crazy and juvenile.
So some 911 guys don't like Boxster. Really?
Well some Corvette guys don't like 911's. Think they are glorified volkswagons. Have they ever drive one?
Probably not.
Sound familiar.

David

[gacook]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Back to the original topic. I can't add anything that hasn't been said in defense of the boxster. I think Porsche got it right with the 986/987. Is the IMS bearing an issue. Maybe? I replaced mine at 50k with an LN. Dual Bearing replaced was in perfect shape. I unfortunately drank the cool aid.

As far as worrying what others think, that is just crazy and juvenile.
So some 911 guys don't like Boxster. Really?
Well some Corvette guys don't like 911's. Think they are glorified volkswagons. Have they ever drive one?
Probably not.
Sound familiar.

David

According to a friend of mine (incidentally, a Corvette owner, who has never owned/driven any Porsche), he doesn't like Boxsters because they're "women's cars." Personally, I like them.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Seating position, steering is heavy, shift and throttle are like you're in an Audi or BMW sled compared (this is the key) to an air-cooled 911.

I love my Boxster....


...but it's not my old stock '88 targa.

In many ways, the Boxster is better, faster, more powerful, probably handles better, is more luxurious with better AC and a better sound system and the missus likes it better. Still, the old 911 had that something extra special that I miss.

I hear folks complain about the HVAC controls in the old 911s (I thought they were great). I also remember people talking about a stiff clutch pedal, heavy non-power steering, vague long-throw shifter (especially 915). The HVAC (climate control) in my boxster is pretty simple (though not as simple as you might expect), the clutch is not heavy, the steering is good (but certainly not like my old 911 also not as heavy), the shifter is much, much better than my old G50 911 (and I didn't think it was bad, never missed a gear)

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Back to the original topic. I can't add anything that hasn't been said in defense of the boxster. I think Porsche got it right with the 986/987.

I like the 986 and the 987 and the 981, and I suspect when I finally see one, I'll also like the 718.

As far as worrying what others think, that is just crazy and juvenile.
So some 911 guys don't like Boxster. Really?
Well some Corvette guys don't like 911's. Think they are glorified volkswagons. Have they ever drive one?
Probably not.
Sound familiar.

David

Precisely, I don't give a rats ass what someone else thinks. I had a guy at work ask me today, why I bought the Porsche, and I think he rattled off several possible examples, the only one that stuck in my mind was "image". Oh, hell no.

Originally Posted by gacook

According to a friend of mine (incidentally, a Corvette owner, who has never owned/driven any Porsche), he doesn't like Boxsters because they're "women's cars." Personally, I like them.

Meh, your friend's a neanderthal wanker.

[masraum]

What's not to love?











And I've posted this before, but hey, I like my car.

[rusnak]

^ Steve,

All good points there. The Cayman (same as Boxter) is superior in weight distribution and power. But it lacks the feedback for me. It's like having sex with a condom haha. I love the heavy clutch of the 915 because I can FEEL the exact bite point. When I replaced the clutch and pressure plate at 400K miles, they were in such good condition, I put the clutch plate on my friend's SC and he's still using it.

What I really love about the Cayman is the 320 HP that Porsche claims, direct fuel injection, and limited slip. I think I should listen to Jeff Altman and maybe get a turbo 997 though. The Cayman AC is worlds better than my 911, no doubt. But the Cayman/ Boxter is no replacement. I guess I like to do it au naturale, haha!

[gacook]

Originally Posted by masraum

What's not to love?











And I've posted this before, but hey, I like my car.

I'm actually not a fan of convertibles, typically; however, I think the Boxster is one car that looks much better with the top down.

[rusnak]

my Cayman

[masraum]

Originally Posted by gacook

I'm actually not a fan of convertibles, typically; however, I think the Boxster is one car that looks much better with the top down.

Funny, I'm also not a convertible guy. I'd be perfectly happy with a hard top, but I'm also not anti-convertible, so if I have 2 options, a great Boxster in great condition with great options at a good price, or a moderate cayman in ok shape with hardly any options at an OK price, I'll go for the Boxster.

The funny thing about me not really being a convertible guy is that my last 4 cars were an '88 targa, a '97 miata, an '04 turbo miata, and an 08 Boxster S RS60.

I looked for an at a few Caymans (Caymen? ) when I bought this Boxster (which came with the optional hardtop), but the best Coxster that I found was the one that I bought. I didn't really have any choice with the Miatas (although the first one came with the optional hard top that I ended up putting on the miata that the wife got).

I do put the top down, but probably not more than 20-30 times a year (probably more like 15). Mostly only when I'm by myself, and mostly only in the dusk to dawn period, and only when the weather is nice and cool.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by rusnak

^ Steve,

All good points there. The Cayman (same as Boxter) is superior in weight distribution and power. But it lacks the feedback for me. It's like having sex with a condom haha. I love the heavy clutch of the 915 because I can FEEL the exact bite point.

Absolutely, the steering and road feel in my old 911 were heavenly. It seemed like you could drive over a coin and tell which coin you'd driven over, but it was actually a very comfy ride. Also, the feedback through the steering wheel was fantastic. The brakes were excellent as well (better than my Boxster, which makes me wonder)

Great analogy by the way, vis a vis riding bareback vs not.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by rusnak

my Cayman

Very nice. THere are times that I think I might like a small tail, like I think yours has.

[CJFusco]

Going back to the comments a few posts ago (Corvettes vs. air-cooled 911s vs. Cayman/Boxster), it's always useful to remember that when 911 (901) was released, many 356 owners hated it, saying "it's not a real Porsche," that it's too bloated and heavy and with too much of a focus on luxury. Sounds familiar. Same thing happened with the impact-bumper cars; and then a similar situation with the 928. And the 924. And the 914. And ESPECIALLY with the 996.

I've talked to a few Cayman S or R owners who have done the usual power-gain mods, tightened up the suspension, taken out some excess weight, and they rave about how the end result feels more like a classic 911 than the current 911 does. Sure, steering feel isn't quite there, but the car is eminently tossable. Is that much different than someone who takes a luxurious 964 and backdates/lightens it and ends up with a car that's much more like a longhood?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

Going back to the comments a few posts ago (Corvettes vs. air-cooled 911s vs. Cayman/Boxster), it's always useful to remember that when 911 (901) was released, many 356 owners hated it, saying "it's not a real Porsche," that it's too bloated and heavy and with too much of a focus on luxury. Sounds familiar. Same thing happened with the impact-bumper cars; and then a similar situation with the 928. And the 924. And the 914. And ESPECIALLY with the 996.

I've talked to a few Cayman S or R owners who have done the usual power-gain mods, tightened up the suspension, taken out some excess weight, and they rave about how the end result feels more like a classic 911 than the current 911 does. Sure, steering feel isn't quite there, but the car is eminently tossable. Is that much different than someone who takes a luxurious 964 and backdates/lightens it and ends up with a car that's much more like a longhood?

My old 2006 Cayman S with PSS9s, Cayman R ride height and alignment, Fabspeed headers and muffler, tune, and some other misc goodies was the closest to the air-cooled 911 experience that I've ever gotten in a water pumper. It was very raw and linear, the rush to redline was very similar to what you experience in one of the older cars. It was also more nimble and obviously easier to live with daily.