Why does Boxster get a lukewarm reception?

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

No, actually the incredible corporate arrogance of the Porsche senior leadership team and their failed attempt to take over VAG was what cost them their independence. At that point they were hugely profitable, I believe their unit profits are still the best in the industry.

Some of you don't like the Boxster's appearance, which is fine. But I'll ask the question again, apples to apples: for $10k, what do you like better? Because the point of comparison isn't a 911 or a Cayman. If you are 986 Boxster shopping your other options are a 914, 928 (not S4), and maybe a 951 if you want to stay with Porsche. Otherwise it's a Miata, MR-Spyder, ragged out S2000, ragged out 350Z, older Mustang, etc. So let's be realistic here.

The reason for Porsche's loss isn't really relevant. The fact is, they ended up being swallowed by a larger company, which means ultimately nothing was "saved" by anything (the Porsche brand will never cease to exist, no matter what happens, the only thing that could be "lost" was their independence).

As far as what else for $10K, man, for me the list goes on forever! 944 (I bought a truly showroom mint 944S2 for much less than that a few years ago, still have it, I'm serious, this looks like a brand new car inside, outside, top to bottom), a very long list of BMWs (E21, E30, a bunch of E46 variants including the ZHP) (I bought a showroom E21 320is a year ago that I still have, I love that car), BMW 2002, various Alfas (Spiders and sedans).

Heck, I'd rather have an 83 or 84 VW GTI than a Boxster.

[onewhippedpuppy]

It's only irrelevant because you won't admit you are wrong. The 986/996 and later the 955 brought Porsche into an era of unprecedented profits. They were not swallowed up because of commercial failure (see Ferrari/Jaguar/Aston Martin/Alfa Romeo) but because of a borderline illegal scheme to manipulate the market and grab a majority share of VAG stock. Porsche WAS facing financial failure in the 1990s however.

As for the remainder of your choices, more power to you. The Boxster is faster, more reliable, more economical, and more comfortable than basically everything you listed. But different strokes for different folks.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

It's only irrelevant because you won't admit you are wrong. The 986/996 and later the 955 brought Porsche into an era of unprecedented profits. They were not swallowed up because of commercial failure (see Ferrari/Jaguar/Aston Martin/Alfa Romeo) but because of a borderline illegal scheme to manipulate the market and grab a majority share of VAG stock. Porsche WAS facing financial failure in the 1990s however.

As for the remainder of your choices, more power to you. The Boxster is faster, more reliable, more economical, and more comfortable than basically everything you listed. But different strokes for different folks.

???

I never said they were swallowed up because of commercial failure (they weren't). Or that the Boxster wasn't a financial success (it was).

Just that in the end, it didn't matter. No car saved Porsche's independence in the end. That cannot be argued.

Porsche may have had financial difficulties in the 90s, but they would have never "failed" as in ceased to exist. All that could have happened to them - the worst case scenario - is they would have run out of money, and been acquired by a huge car company. Likely one of the 3 or 4 biggest car companies in the world, like VW. Which ended up happening anyways.

As far as the other choices, a Chevy Cruze is faster, more reliable, more economical, and more comfortable than basically everything I listed.

What's the point?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Your posts insinuated that the Boxster had some connection to Porsche being swallowed by VAG, when in fact there is no connection whatsoever between product and the acquisition. Had it happened in the 1990s when Porsche was broke then we'd blame the 993 and 968 for the death of an independent Porsche, which is an interesting proposition.

[McLovin]

My bad then.

I don't think the boxster had anything to do with Porsche losing their independence. At least not directly.

I don't fully understand what happened (mostly because I'm not really that interested in it), but it seems like the Boxster and other products (Cayenne?) were so financially successful that they allowed Porsche to believe they could acquire VW. Which launched them on a crazy path of trying to do that, and the financial shenanigans that occurred after that which led to their demise.

Maybe/arguably if Porsche would have just stuck to being the world's best independent manufacturer of sports cars, and been happy with that crown, they would still be independent today.

But who knows, it's all speculation. (But it's certainly not the Boxster's fault!)

[onewhippedpuppy]

I don't recall the entire saga, but Porsche had a good percentage of VAG stock and attempted to seize a majority stake in a pretty shady way. I believe some Porsche execs actually faced criminal charges. My perpetual question - wtf did they want a majority stake in VAG for? I suspect the truth is mostly ego.

[sugarwood]

Here is a long article about the Porsche/VW stock story.
Lots of company history and context
http://priceonomics.com/porsche-the-hedge-fund-that-also-made-cars/

Here is a much shorter version. Just the facts.
Porsche and VW: What the Hell Happened? - Timeline of Events - Automobile Magazine

[sugarwood]

I'm reading the long article, and just realized why I rarely ever see any 964s and 993s for sale.
They sold a fraction of those cars compared to the 80s, '89-'97 was a trough in unit sales.

[Cajundaddy]

10 years ago...
I had just spun off a big chunk of my company. I had a moderate pile of cash so I funded the rest of my kids college, paid off some debt, put a sizable chunk into retirement funds and still had some residual $$ for a personal trophy of sorts. A pat on the back for 20 years of blood sweat and tears, feast and famine coming out with some gravy in the end. I figured I'd go pick out a nice Turbo or maybe an older Ferrari.

Drove a couple Turbos- too much car. I wanted a weekend joyride, not a 200 mph supercar.

Drove a couple 911SCs- a personal favorite model while going to college. Really fun but primitive. I live in the desert and want modern AC that works.

A friend suggested a Boxster. "A Boxster really?" Yep, just drive one.

I drove several. Some were not well cared for but one looked to be a one-owner sweetie and drove like new. "Maybe I'll drive this for a year and get the lay of Porsche land while picking out a nice creampuff 911". I drove that Boxster for 10 years and only recently replaced it with my current 2009 Cayman. It was the most fun car I have ever owned. What someone else thinks or doesn't think is not relevant. The Boxster was exactly the right car at the right time for me. Loved that car.

[mmassey0125]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Actually, in the end the boxster didn't save anything.

Porsche ended up losing its independence and being acquired by a humungous conglomorate car company anyways.


So it didn't really do anything, maybe delayed the inevitable for a few years, but that's it.

(And arguably made the company a more attractive target, so arguably helped to NOT save the company)

What? Porsche was trying to take over VW but did something illegal and lost in the end. The profits from boxster sales put the company in the black.

[DWBOX2000]

Put me in the "loving it" camp. I have a 2000 S and really enjoy it. Thanks to whoever posted the old commercial, forgot about that one. Love it.

David

[sugarwood]

I am now considering picking up a Boxster. Like Miata shopping, it's fun to shop for this car since there are so many of them. 911 market is such a freak of nature, I forget that some cars go months without selling.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Porsche sold 6,000 911's in 1986 per the Red Book.

What were the other 24,000 units?

These are not Porsche numbers (I don't think).

I will couch this with I don't have my reading glasses but several thousand a year was normal. If any year was big it was 1986.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Porsche sold 6,000 911's in 1986 per the Red Book.

What were the other 24,000 units?

These are not Porsche numbers (I don't think).

I will couch this with I don't have my reading glasses but several thousand a year was normal. If any year was big it was 1986.

944 would be my guess. And does that 911 figure count/include turbos?

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by masraum

944 would be my guess. And does that 911 figure count/include turbos?

I swear to God, I can't see much o' nuttin.

Ronnie poked my eyes out over a sheep argument.

[thamlin000]

The graph is probably accurate. Porsche sold around 5,000 944s in 83. That number jumped to about 15k 944s sold in 84. I think the mid-80s saw about 10-15k 944s sold per year in the US. I'm going off of memory here but I think my numbers are close.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by thamlin000

The graph is probably accurate. Porsche sold around 5,000 944s in 83. That number jumped to about 15k 944s sold in 84. I think the mid-80s saw about 10-15k 944s sold per year in the US. I'm going off of memory here but I think my numbers are close.

Cool beans.

I remember Stoddard Porsche in 92 trying to sell me a 964 Coupe at 1.9% financing for eight ears. Still $800 per month. Jeebus.

[rusnak]

ooh, a 944 Turbo is intriguing.

I have an '84 911, a '70 914-6, a '11 Cayman S among others.

Just talking about driving feel, nothing else: The Cayman S has a great motor, limited slip, manual shift, and will spin the tires from a stop up to freeway speeds. But it is like a sled compared to the lighter 911. I think the 911, while much slower, is a better drivers car. That is contrary to popular opinion. But when you jump from one to another car, the 914-6 has the best driving feel, and is fun in a 4-wheel drift. I put 'SC brakes on it, and it inspires a lot of confidence in corners, but is super jumpy at speeds over 90 mph. I grew up dirt track racing, and really love the 911 on everything except for downhill corners. The rear really wants to step out on you too much. The manual shifter on the Cayman balks, unlike my 915 transaxle with a Wevo shifter. So the 911 feels better to drive, shifts better, but lacks the power of the Cayman. The Cayman feels very much like the 914-6 on initial turn-in. The sport seats on the Cayman, the 6-speed gearbox, etc make it not great for trips over 2 hours but great for short blasts to the next town over.

Looks wise, the Cayman S of a generation ago is just fantastic. Super refined, and the proportions are just spot on. I am not liking the 2016 Cayman styling with flatter fenders. But my 911 has the Carrera tail, 9" Fuchs, and is really unique in the automotive world. Nothing replaces the air cooled 911 for looks or for feel or sound. Nothing.

[aigel]

I was going to pick up a base model - first gen - silver with red interior. The base model actually has started to grow on me, including the early headlamps. Money in pocket to the used car lot around the corner. It checked out on carfax etc. and last step before offering was pulling codes - cam timing actuator came up in the OBD. Reading about that repair made me turn on my heels. After than never found another that I liked as much in terms of looks and mechanicals and eventually lost interest in the hunt / got busy doing other things.

Maybe next year!

G

[rfuerst911sc]

I have had the pleasure of owning a 1974 911S Targa, 1987 944S , 1975 914/6 GT clone with 3.0, 1983 911SC coupe and now my 2002 Boxster S . I enjoyed each car for what it was and I would have a hard time saying one was better than the other. The order I have them listed in is the order I owned them in. My taste in cars was changing as my life was changing. I toughed it out in FL. with minimal AC but that gets old. After moving to GA. the decision was made the next P car was going to have creature comforts. While I would have loved to pick up a 993 the price was just too much for me. Enter stage right the 02 Boxster S. For whatever reason I really like the looks of the car. To me it has a classic shape. First convertible I have ever owned and love it. Spring and fall driving with the top down is very enjoyable. Summer can be a ***** here we currently have been in the 90's with fairly high humidity for a week now. No problem leave the top up and run the AC........cool pleasant air coming out of the vents . Winter time I don't have to but I install the hardtop. For the few mornings that are quite cold those heated leather seats are to die for. To me the car has an excellent balance of handling, performance, creature comforts and safety features for a VERY affordable cost. So affordable that I was able to have Jake Raby build a killer 3.6 engine for it. I have a OEM GT3 front bumper, GT3 rocker covers and a GT3 TEK rear bumper/diffuser so she is my version of a GT3 Boxster ! I did all of this for ME........could care less what anyone else thinks about the car. She brings a smile to my face every time I fire her up. And I still take a second look at her when walking away after parking her. Pelican is a great PORSCHE community that covers all models, lets enjoy what we have and keep moving forward. Someone is always going to have a larger penis or a hotter trophy wife so get over it and enjoy life !!!