Ma Nature can be a beotch

[wdfifteen]

I was picking raspberries last week and I came across a tree sparrow nest with 3 eggs in it. I was gone a day, and when I next looked at the nest there was one sparrow egg and two cowbird eggs. Cowbirds are brood parasites - they lay their eggs in other bird's nests and often kick the owner's eggs out of the nest in the process.



At the time I wondered if I should intervene and flick the cowbird eggs out of the nest. I had to go out of town and was gone several days. When I got back the eggs had hatched.



Now my delimma was more problematic. The two cowbird chicks were much bigger than the little sparrow chick and it would either starve or get stomped to death. With my human sensibilities it seemed wrong to let the diligent sparrow work herself to death to raise those two, much bigger, cowbirds while her own chick died.


web photo

I could kick the cowbirds out, killing them, or I could let nature take its course. Is it right for humans to project our sense of morality onto nature? I pondered that all night and did not come to a resolution.
I went out to check on the nest this morning and it was wrecked. Some predator had come along in the night and eaten all three chicks. Ma nature is truly a beotch

[john70t]

That looks like a nice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipping_Sparrow with its cute red head.
I would have tried to save it.

The birds I don't like are the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Sparrow.
We used to get chickadees, downy and pileated woodpeckers, canaries, tufted titmouses, jays, etc. in the backyard.
Now all we have is a 20-50 member flock of those things who chase everything in sight away.

[stomachmonkey]

LOL.

True.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Seems like there's some sort of cosmic metaphorical lesson there, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.

[wdfifteen]

^^
I had the power to decide who lives and who dies and I would have made my decision based on my human ideas of right, wrong, fair, and unfair.
The cowbirds are overbearing and selfish by my assessment and the sparrow's mothering instinct was being exploited.
But the cowbird was also doing what her instinct tells her to do. There was no malicious intent, it's just what they do to survive.
I had to ponder whether it was right or wrong to intervene with my human perception of right and wrong - it seems to be our instinct to put human values on things that aren't human. It would have been emotionally painful to watch the sparrow chick die - it would have outraged my sense of right and wrong, but should I kill the cowbirds because of my sense of morality?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

..., or I could let nature take its course. Is it right for humans to project our sense of morality onto nature? I pondered that all night and did not come to a resolution....

I went out to check on the nest this morning and it was wrecked. Some predator had come along in the night and eaten all three chicks. Ma nature is truly a beotch

That's a tough one Patrick...I usually just let nature take it's course. That said, I'll protect the migrating geese that overnight in a neighbor's pond from coyotes too if I get the chance. Since the predator's are "out of place" here anymore....and I don't want 'em getting pets, etc.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Seems like there's some sort of cosmic metaphorical lesson there, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.

I think it has something to do with wives' DDs and their insistence on garage space.

[herr_oberst]

It's a balance, and your instinct is to try and save the underdog. How does that mesh with the instinct of the parasite to invade the nest? What part do reasoning, feelings and anthropomorphizing play in this grand scheme?

No matter what you ended up doing, it would be right and it would be wrong.

We're all in this together, just doing the best that we can.

[herr_oberst]

I thought about this some more.

One of my favorite song lyrics is this one:

"What will I tell you
when you ask me why I'm crying?
Will I point above
at the Red Tail gracefully soaring
or down below where its prey
is quietly trembling?"

These few words pretty much sum up the balance of nature for me, and the conflicting emotions that go along with the enjoyment of our world.

Thanks for sharing the story, Patrick.

[wdfifteen]

What song is that from? It does neatly sum up the conundrum. In this case, while I was pondering the sparrow vs cowbird question, some other predator made no distinction. It made dinner of both of them.
I watched a wonderful video about Taoism with some old hippie friends a while back. It showed a beautiful clip of a dry autumn leaf floating down a small stream. The Tao view was that if you reach out and touch the leaf you have changed it and you can no longer know it. You can only appreciate the true scene if you sit still and observe. Of course, as an old engineer, I drug out the old observer effect phenomenon (sometimes called the Heisenberg uncertainly principle) and reduced the discussion to something a scientist could understand. Which drove everyone else away. But it made sense to me.

[herr_oberst]

"Good Friday" by the Cowboy Junkies.

[Noah930]

I felt terrible when a pair of birds (no idea what type) built a nest and laid/hatched 3 eggs in the bougainvillea vine next to our front porch. Unfortunately we have a household with two cats, who just love to hang out on our front porch. It was kinda sad when one of the cats managed to eat the three chicks as they were learning (unsuccessfully) to fly. Yeah, yeah, circle of life. But I still felt terrible for the parents.

[cabmandone]

I'd have based my decision on which one is more likely to drop a bigger load on my freshly washed car and then acted accordingly.

[gacook]

I've never paid much attention to birds. They annoy me by either crapping on my car, my lawn furniture, or fly into my freshly washed windows--killing themselves. Guess I'm not exactly a "nature lover..." I keep "predators" as pets (cat/dog), so I empathize more with their plight in life than I do "prey."

Somewhat "funny" story the other day, though. Was driving to work, and 2 birds (I assume courting) come flying across the road: one goes right over the hood; the other slams right into the side of the truck, just behind my open window, splattering itself along the road. Half a second difference in the timing, and it could have slammed right into my head. I wondered how that might have played out...

[wdfifteen]

Coincidentally, I was listening to podcasts on my way home this morning and came across this This American Life episode. Act three is pertinent to this thread.

If You Don't Have Anything Nice to Say, SAY IT IN ALL CAPS | This American Life

[herr_oberst]

The osprey. Dammit, it will break your heart every stinkin' time!

[aigel]

Nature is tough. We are feel "above" nature at times. And we are - man has dropped testosterone levels significantly in early times, so we could live together without bashing each others heads in at the instant we'd see another male. That said, I am a fan of letting nature run its course. I also enjoy becoming part of the food chain again, hunting, gathering and fishing. It is deeply engrained in us just as it is in that cowbird! We exploit the other animals and rightfully so - we are smarter and that's why they end up on my BBQ!

G

[pitargue]

Originally Posted by aigel

I also enjoy becoming part of the food chain again, hunting, gathering and fishing. It is deeply engrained in us just as it is in that cowbird! We exploit the other animals and rightfully so - we are smarter and that's why they end up on my BBQ!

G

Is bringing back the California Grizzly and Gray wolves that used to be here in CA part of this plan?

[aigel]

Originally Posted by pitargue

Is bringing back the California Grizzly and Gray wolves that used to be here in CA part of this plan?

No problem, since I am an urban dweller, I will support this along with the rest of the crowd. Sounds great if you are in town and get to visit for pictures and hunting adventures!

G

[wdfifteen]

My own relationship with nature is conflicted. I try to keep as small a footprint as I can, but I grow a garden and I am constantly battling bugs and deer. I don't hunt myself, but I encourage more deer harvesting around here.
I have a 2500 gallon koi pond in my back yard. One morning I saw a bird that looked like a frikkin' pterodactyl land next to it, and I said to my wife, "Wow, look at this heron. Mother nature, right in my back yard." Just about the time I said "yard" he darted out his head and grabbed one of my $60 fish.
It's always a struggle between man and nature, especially if we humans aren't intent of taking the easy route and just wiping nature out.