Greeks lining up at ATMs

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Iciclehead

You and I are on the same page on this, logically if you take the fact that most of the pensioner's costs are in local US currency, a dropping exchange rate as a means devaluing debt, with attendant increase in interest rates will in fact allow the kinds of returns you mention.

Now....nominal versus real, Joe and Mary Q. Citizen get fewer real dollars as you dick with the inflation numbers to cause slower inflation of payouts than what the real inflation rate is, ostensibly allowing you to honour your commitment to citizens even though you practically are screwing them over with a pitchfork.

Oh yes, I really, really, really need to not type late at night after my nightly drink.....hide and seek, hide the pickle and all sorts of games take on a whole new level when you are trying to type.



Dennis

Your our Champion...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nKiYC7pyxs

Who out of the blue.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmHrB-2gHjU

It is all about listening to the exposition.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Iciclehead

You and I are on the same page on this, logically if you take the fact that most of the pensioner's costs are in local US currency, a dropping exchange rate as a means devaluing debt, with attendant increase in interest rates will in fact allow the kinds of returns you mention.

Now....nominal versus real, Joe and Mary Q. Citizen get fewer real dollars as you dick with the inflation numbers to cause slower inflation of payouts than what the real inflation rate is, ostensibly allowing you to honour your commitment to citizens even though you practically are screwing them over with a pitchfork.

Oh yes, I really, really, really need to not type late at night after my nightly drink.....hide and seek, hide the pickle and all sorts of games take on a whole new level when you are trying to type.



Dennis

So what your saying is that with low interest rates the Pensioner gets it up the azz because they get nothing on the ROI and has to swallow the fact that his buying power is being diminished as his currency is devalued.

The only way to beat the rape is to take mo risk which in this case means the Equity markets. The Fed in effect has told the Pension plans who need 8% to meet projected payouts that they have their backs and are covered.

So the Equity markets as well as the RE market (which has now plateaued) has done nothing but gone up without a major correction since September 2012 and the event of QE3.

So who didn't see that one coming beforehand?

Madame Lafarge has been keeping a list.

[Iciclehead]

Originally Posted by tabs

So what your saying is that with low interest rates the Pensioner gets it up the azz because they get nothing on the ROI and has to swallow the fact that his buying power is being diminished as his currency is devalued.

The only way to beat the rape is to take mo risk which in this case means the Equity markets. The Fed in effect has told the Pension plans who need 8% to meet projected payouts that they have their backs and are covered.

So the Equity markets as well as the RE market (which has now plateaued) has done nothing but gone up without a major correction since September 2012 and the event of QE3.

So who didn't see that one coming beforehand?

Madame Lafarge has been keeping a list.

The wise have seen, the prudent have positioned, the random event has not happened. Contango or backwardation?

Oh yeah, the market will take a hit as investors withdraw when they fail to see the growths they need to maintain their desired lifestyle. Perish the thought it turns into deflation where, in light of the perversity of negative interest rates, cash once again becomes king. Notice how much effort is going into cashless society and crimping the use of cash these days. Wonder why?

Sit tight, with this just in:

Greece debt crisis: Eurozone rejects bailout appeal - BBC News

The vote will be telling, but the issue is someone needs to take action.

If the Greeks vote to stay in the Union but refuse to pay, don't take the "advice" of the IMF et al, WTF happens.

Who forecloses on the loans? Love to see the "events of default" section. I mean, what can they do? Lock the doors on the Acropolis?

If a payment to the IMF is missed and managing director Christine Lagarde informs her board, the eurozone would have the right under the loan agreements to demand immediate repayment of more than €180bn they have already lent Greece, together with interest.

Failure to repay the IMF comes under a list of "events of default" set out in the legal documents. IMF officials say Ms Lagarde intends to inform the board promptly if Greece doesn't pay on time.

Dennis

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Umm, because the public sector expenses have been outstripping the private sector's ability to produce for a long time, forcing deficit spending and borrowing and (when they were under the drachma) money-printing / currency devaluation?

Sound familiar?

what actually happened is AIG invented a new currency and exchange rate in order to hide greek debts and allow them into the euro in the first place.

essentially, they lied.

[tabs]

U already have deflation, checked oil lately the price of consumer goods. We are awash on a sea of liquidity where demand is waning. Last year autos did great numbers as the avg age of the US auto fleet was about 12 years old case of replacement

[sc_rufctr]

[sc_rufctr]

GREECE DECIDES: Polls say 'No' voters have the lead | Business Insider

This should get interesting.

[HardDrive]

I'm very curious about how this will play out. A Greek exit combined with massive uncertainty in the Shanghai Composite (off 30% in 3 weeks!)....typically markets don't like uncertainty. If the US markets shrug this off, I'm going to start taking Tabs 'The fix is in' speeches too heart!

[dlockhart]

[jyl]

I'm positioned defensively at present. However, the Shanghai market is pretty remote from most investors outside of China. The Greek default has been expected for a very long time, and the ECB is ready to meet any Eurozone bank liquidity needs outside of Greece. So if the Greek situation reaches some conclusion (almost no matter what it is), and the Fed delays rate increases to next year, you could see a nice 2H rally.

[tabs]

Back a few years I wrote about Germany rresurrecting the Sturmabeteillung to enforce its will through austerity measures imposed upon the debtor states. I believe that quiet a few people listen to what TABS says for two reasons. First is that TABS does not mince words and gives an accurate appraisal of the situation. Second is that TABS's level of economic and political abstraction is unique.

[Iciclehead]

Speaking as both a Dutch and Canadian citizen, I am delighted to see the Greeks take their destiny into their own hands.

This is clear repudiation of the Brussels notion that Europe is one when it is not. It is an unholy confluence of cultures, ideologies all woven into a fabric with no strength, no unity, no direction.

May the Greeks have the strength to deal with the inevitable suffering that will mark their future and may their love for their country be reflected and amplified for each of our distinct cultures in each country throughout the EU.

Perhaps this is the stake through the heart of unfettered globalization and the beginning of the end of the madness...

Tomorrow will be interesting as markets open....

Dennis

[Iciclehead]

Interesting how every time that the EU gets pressed into a referendum by the owners of the countries....namely the average citizen....they get rebuffed.

Makes you really, really wonder if there is alignment between those in power and their citizens.

I am no populist, but clearly what the politicians want is not how the average voter sees it and I think it is bloody well time that elected officials spend more time listening and understanding and the average voters ceasing to believe that their contribution to democracy is placing an X every few years...we collectively have to understand better, pay attention and make our beliefs known to those ostensibly elected to represent us.

Dennis

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Iciclehead

Interesting how every time that the EU gets pressed into a referendum by the owners of the countries....namely the average citizen....they get rebuffed.

Makes you really, really wonder if there is alignment between those in power and their citizens.

I am no populist, but clearly what the politicians want is not how the average voter sees it and I think it is bloody well time that elected officials spend more time listening and understanding and the average voters ceasing to believe that their contribution to democracy is placing an X every few years...we collectively have to understand better, pay attention and make our beliefs known to those ostensibly elected to represent us.

Dennis

Such emotion which contravenes the very epitome of the Technocratic ideal of rationality and intellect over emotion as evidenced by the supreme technocrat of them all one Barrack Obama. How is that for a sentence and a perceptional concept?

[tabs]

For the most part you all are lost in the forest of a perceptional construct that no matter how hard you try does not match reality. Maynard Keynes talked about the "animal spirits" of emotion which we all know exists. Men more often than not are ruled by emotion rather than by rationality. So the question becomes how do you quantify an emotion? The answer is an unqualified you just can't do it.

Now some are trying to figure out brain center locus and chemistry as the panacea scientific answer to the age old dilemma. This is an effort to diminish men into being nothing more than just an electrical circuit and a bunch of molecules floating around in ones head. However these Boyz haven't even conceived of Wifi yet...or a connector that links everything in the universe together.

[Iciclehead]

Originally Posted by tabs

For the most part you all are lost in the forest of a perceptional construct that no matter how hard you try does not match reality. Maynard Keynes talked about the "animal spirits" of emotion which we all know exists. Men more often than not are ruled by emotion rather than by rationality. So the question becomes how do you quantify an emotion? The answer is an unqualified you just can't do it.

Now some are trying to figure out brain center locus and chemistry as the panacea scientific answer to the age old dilemma. This is an effort to diminish men into being nothing more than just an electrical circuit and a bunch of molecules floating around in ones head. However these Boyz haven't even conceived of Wifi yet...or a connector that links everything in the universe together.

Good sentence previously and yes, good ol' Barack would be one to favour the European Union with its ivory tower bureaucrats who do not have the good sense that God gave a goose. But then again, he might just be a gosling in that crowd...

Personally, I think there is a whole substrata of thinking going on in the mind, one's spirit if you will, which is both absorbing knowledge and ideas and putting out conclusions in the form of hunches, conviction and belief.

The output of a rational mind, if you will, frequently is made apparent by an emotion...gut feel, whatever.

Dennis

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Iciclehead

Good sentence previously and yes, good ol' Barack would be one to favour the European Union with its ivory tower bureaucrats who do not have the good sense that God gave a goose. But then again, he might just be a gosling in that crowd...

Personally, I think there is a whole substrata of thinking going on in the mind, one's spirit if you will, which is both absorbing knowledge and ideas and putting out conclusions in the form of hunches, conviction and belief.

The output of a rational mind, if you will, frequently is made apparent by an emotion...gut feel, whatever.

Dennis

Obama was the sirens voice of seduction for the Technocrat whether it be in Politics, Academia, Media or Finance. The europeans gave him the Noble Prize for Christs sake, all on the come for the great achievements he was supposed to accomplish. They fell over themselves in orgasmic delight. This is where the great and almighty Krauthammer notions goes south, it wasn't Ronald Reagan they were comparing him to but the deified on Mt Rushmore Abraham Lincoln as in they used the Lincoln Bible to swear him in as President. He was no "gosling" he was their Niesche esque superman hero. But what has it all turned to but ashes and dust.

Ummm so your saying that the subconscious acts as a CPU and memory file from which calculations are made and conclusions are formed which then come to the surface of consciousness in the form of imagery and the feelings they invoke? I think I will take note of that.

[tabs]

We all walk through and live in an unseen world. When I was 20 years old I made a conscious decision that that unseen world is as real as the hard and fast physical world of the here and now. We all know that you can not see, hear or touch an emotion or image from our imagination, but only the manifestation as we express them. It is from this perspective that I approach politics and economics and why I do so well with my analysis. That is what makes me unique.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

This was sort of doomed from the start - Europe as a whole is far too fragmented. The citizens of each EU member nation are far too nationalistic and proud of their identity as "Spaniards", "Italians", "Englishmen", "Germans", "Greeks" or whatever rather than "Europeans". In order for this whole EU thing to work, it has to dissolve the "us versus them" mentality that is quite clearly alive and well. The Greeks see themselves as victims of the "oppressive" Germans. Most other EU member state citizens see the "Greeks" as irresponsible and reckless rather than seeing their own European brothers as facing great difficulty, which might endear them to the Greek cause a bit. The whole thing is a sham. I suspect the EU will eventually become like the UN - a "name only" sort of agreement between member nations that really don't / can't get along and will backstab each other the first chance they get.

I agree with Dennis however - I'm sick and tired of globalization and am not wholly disappointed to see this little bit of the "New World Order" fall on its face. A little competitiveness in the world isn't a bad thing.

[tabs]

Allen Greenspan told Charlie Rose that he was working on trying to quantify the economic "animal spirits" in a new book that he was writing. As it turned out his book was about something a bit different and that was the last we ever heard him say anything about quantifying the "animal spirits."

The "animal spirits" are dissatisfied and frustrated about the way things are turning out, as in none of their programs of rectifying the economy are working out. This is sowing the seeds of doubt in their minds as in they are at a loss as to what to do? Meanwhile things continue along on the route south.