ATE Super Blue?!

[speeder]

Originally Posted by TimT

Super blue is really just a middle of the road brake fluid..... with a gimmick...It is blue...

It will stain your brake fluid reservoir... and only offers performance advantages over some off the shelf fluids you can get from FLAPS....

There are a dozen or more better brake fluids that you can use....

Brake fluid comparison

Thanks, Tim. The ATE 200 is certainly priced right compared to others on that chart. Also, it seems that hardly any fluid has a higher boiling point by much except for that Castrol product, so I think that it's a little better than "middle of the road".

[TimT]

The purpose of using blue, is to see the color change when you flush your system. They made a fluid with yellow, or blue die, you alternate each flush.

Really!!! I never would have thought that...wow... that is great to know!!

you could see the transition when you were pumping out the old fluid.

Just like when you see the old fluid pumping out when flushing with new fluid....If you need colored fluid for that......

Ate Super blue is just a middle of the pack fluid...there are a bunch of better brake fluids available.... And even equivalents available at your FLAPs

I never bought into the "blue fluid" mantra... and still don't.... You can better serve the brake system on your car with another fluid and a little common sense...

[TimT]

Also, it seems that hardly any fluid has a higher boiling point by much except for that Castrol product, so I think that it's a little better than "middle of the road".

Dry boiling point is not relevant....

As soon as you open the bottle of fluid and introduce it to your brake system... it starts to attract water.... hence wet boiling point..

Who gives a crap what the boiling point is for a freshly opened bottle of brake fluid.... what matters is when it has been in service for a bit..

This is the spec that matters...

Castrol SRF is the shiznits.. but for a street car... get some Castrol Dot 4 Syntec

We do use SRF in many of the cars in our shop.... except when the customer balks.... then there are other alternatives....

[john70t]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

No more dyed blue reservoirs.

But what if I'd rather not know how much brake fluid is left in the reservoir?
Or it's color.

My radio system is awesome btw.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by TimT

Really!!! I never would have thought that...wow... that is great to know!!



Just like when you see the old fluid pumping out when flushing with new fluid....If you need colored fluid for that......

Ate Super blue is just a middle of the pack fluid...there are a bunch of better brake fluids available.... And even equivalents available at your FLAPs

I never bought into the "blue fluid" mantra... and still don't.... You can better serve the brake system on your car with another fluid and a little common sense...

I change out the brake fluid on my car each and every spring and have for 30 years. With 12 month old fluid it does not change color much if any at all. It is a challenge to know for sure when new fluid is flowing if it is the very same same color.

I stocked up on some ATE blue when it was still available. With alternating between blow and gold I am good to go until 2020 with my annual brake fluid changes.

[Jeff Alton]

I am with TimT on this... ATE makes average fluid. Great for daily driven cars that see fluid changes every couple of years. The BLUE was a marketing thing, it was not blue for the purpose of being able to tell when new fluid made it out the bleeder screw.

Now that they can't use blue dye, the type 200 is marketed as extended life up to 3 years and SL6 is marketed as the replacement for Super DOT 4.... Again, both are good run of the mill fluids that work well.

[winders]

Yet Ate Super Blue (now Type 200) is used in a lot of race cars here in Northern California. And I am sure elsewhere in the U.S. as well. How can this be if the fluid is so average? Because sometimes all you need in a race car is decent brake fluid. My race car gets by just fine using Ate Super Blue. I have never had a problem with my brakes so why should I spend a lot more on Castrol SRF or Endless when I don't need to??

[wdfifteen]

Why is the wet boil temperature different with different brake fluids? Water boils at 212 degrees at sea level pressure. How does the brake fluid change that?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by winders

Yet Ate Super Blue (now Type 200) is used in a lot of race cars here in Northern California. And I am sure elsewhere in the U.S. as well. How can this be if the fluid is so average? Because sometimes all you need in a race car is decent brake fluid. My race car gets by just fine using Ate Super Blue. I have never had a problem with my brakes so why should I spend a lot more on Castrol SRF or Endless when I don't need to??

There are obviously varying requirements for different race cars depending on how fast they go and are being driven, the track conditions, etc. I'll go out on a limb and say that most of us here do not get into brake fluid boiling territory with our street cars, assuming that the fluid is changed regularly, which is the most important thing.

Some tracks tax the brakes more than others; for instance, Willow Springs is a track where brakes are not used much even though speeds are the highest of any track around the region.

The average person is not aware that brake fluid needs to be changed on their street car and the condition of fluid in older cars is appalling. I just changed it, (and the dried out brake hoses), on the little truck I'm driving now, as I do on every car that I work on. My point is that any decent, FRESH brake fluid in a properly maintained brake system is way out in front of the game. For true, dedicated race cars or sports cars being driven near their limits on demanding tracks, the mega dollar Castrol is probably smart $$ spent.

Since we're talking brakes, don't neglect the brake line hoses in your older street cars. They should be changed out every 10 years or so at the minimum. They never are, though.

[winders]

Denis,

My race car is not slow.....it did a 1:39.4xx at Sears Point and Sears Point is not particularly easy on brakes.

My point is that not every car needs to be running Castro SRF or Endless. Some might need a fluid like that but certainly not all. Ate Super Blue or Type 200 is fine in many situations. Buy the fluid appropriate to your situation.

[speeder]

For sure. I'm comfortable using clean ATE in my street driven sports cars.

[TimT]

Why is the wet boil temperature different with different brake fluids? Water boils at 212 degrees at sea level pressure. How does the brake fluid change that?

Each manufacturers fluids have different dry boiling points... and most/all are hygroscopic... (absorbs water)..

When the brake fluid absorbs water.... the dry boiling point changes.... and the amount of water the fluid absorbs affects the wet boiling point.. Old fluids may have a lot of water entrained... new fluid much less...

The problem is when the water portion of the brake fluid boils ... it turns to a gas.... and is compressible.. When water is liquid.. it is considered "incompressible"

Which equals a spongy brake pedal... or worse... a brake pedal with no response..

[unclebilly]

This stuff is crap. It is ok for a street car but is in no way a performance brake fluid.

I can't understand the hype it gets on this website... Obviously by those who have never actually raced... A DE is not the same as a race.

[winders]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

This stuff is crap. It is ok for a street car but is in no way a performance brake fluid.

I can't understand the hype it gets on this website... Obviously by those who have never actually raced... A DE is not the same as a race.

It is only crap if it doesn't work for you and your car.

Again, there are many quite fast Porsche air-cooled race cars in my area that need a fluid no better than Ate Super Blue/Type 200 to function properly. My race car is one of them.

I have raced and quite successfully. Of course, my car weighs 2370 lbs with me in it. There is no way either Ate fluid would work in a heavier car with a lot more power like a Cup Car. Using Castrol SRF or Endless in my car would be a waste of money but would be the proper choice for a Cup Car.

[unclebilly]

If you are running stock brakes in a 64 - 89 911 (not turbo), ATE super blue is not enough for real racing. I base this on testing at a track with a ~ 1 mile front straight, a shorter track may allow for less heat. I would get fade after 3 laps with super blue (I put it in after a repair at the track). At the time I had stock brakes in my 77 with race pads. I had been running DOT 5.1 before I put in the super blue.

With an improved setup (better calipers, rotors) you can run a crappier fluid such as super blue because these can shed the heat better.

This car now has a Turbo brake setup with Pagid RS29s and could probably run super blue but I stick with the Brembo LCF600...

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

This stuff is crap. It is ok for a street car but is in no way a performance brake fluid.

It's better then dot 3. With a light car, bigger brakes, and big cooling ducts. I bet very few members have actually boiled super blue.

[winders]

unclebilly,

Now you are qualifying your comments instead of making generalizations. That's good. But phrases like "real racing" and "crappier fluid" just don't belong.

My car has Turbo rear calipers on all four corners and I use PFC 11 compound pads along with Ate Super Blue. Come to Sears Point and show me how crappy my setup is.....

[dad911]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

It's better then dot 3. With a light car, bigger brakes, and big cooling ducts. I bet very few members have actually boiled super blue.

I never boiled it. Also bled alot of fluid between events, both DE and club racing. However, this was 10 years ago and If I'd known of a better fluid, I'd have used it.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by winders

unclebilly,

Now you are qualifying your comments instead of making generalizations. That's good. But phrases like "real racing" and "crappier fluid" just don't belong.

My car has Turbo rear calipers on all four corners and I use PFC 11 compound pads along with Ate Super Blue. Come to Sears Point and show me how crappy my setup is.....

Yah, like I said, you have upgraded brakes that can shed the heat so super blue works with your setup.

If you had stock calipers and rotors and were doing real racing, super blue isn't up to the task. The Ford DOT3 stuff is better.

I have boiled this crap - I ran it in a pinch after making a repair at the track and it was all we could scrounge up in the pits that day. It doesn't belong in a race car.

If it is so great, list the F1, Lemans, NASCAR teams that use it...

[winders]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Yah, like I said, you have upgraded brakes that can shed the heat so super blue works with your setup.

If you had stock calipers and rotors and were doing real racing, super blue isn't up to the task. The Ford DOT3 stuff is better.

I have boiled this crap - I ran it in a pinch after making a repair at the track and it was all we could scrounge up in the pits that day. It doesn't belong in a race car.

If it is so great, list the F1, Lemans, NASCAR teams that use it...

There you go making generalizations again. I am not saying Ate Super Blue is great and should be used by all race cars. What I am saying is that Ate Super Blue is more than adequate for a lot of race cars with mine being one of them. I do "real racing" with my car and it is a real "race car".

Why would any race team with enough budget to be in F1, run Le Mans, or run in NASCAR use anything less than the best fluid they can get into their cars? I would be using Endless or Castro SRF if I had that budget, a full time crew, and changed brake fluid after every race. Also, those series all put massive demands on the brake systems so Ate Super Blue probably wouldn't work regardless.

The bottom line is that Ate Super Blue/Type 200 are not crap, are often adequate, and make sense to use in some race cars. Appropriateness for use in a race car is race car dependent.