It's official, Mars has water

[sammyg2]

But but but, the 5 second sound bite said they found WATER on Mars.
it must be true, the media wouldn't tell us something that isn't true.....

It's got to be real water and not a poisonous chemical called perchlorate, which is mainly used in .... drum roll ...... rocket fuel!

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

But but but, the 5 second sound bite said they found WATER on Mars.
it must be true, the media wouldn't tell us something that isn't true.....

It's got to be real water and not a poisonous chemical called perchlorate, which is mainly used in .... drum roll ...... rocket fuel!

So we would have a way to get back to Earth?

The Martian fireworks will be spectacular.

PYROTECHNIC FORMULAS: ROCKET PROPELLANTS
Pyrotechnic Formulas: Rocket Propellants - CannonFuse.com

Comments: This propellant is often referred to as "candy propellant".

DANGER: Copper sulfate can not be used in the first formula to produce a blue strobe. Copper sulfate absorbs moisture readily from the surrounding atmosphere. This moisture would then cause the magnesium and ammonium perchlorate to react producing heat, and eventually spontaneous combustion.

A decision made under the Bush Administration, in 2008, held that the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) should not regulate levels of perchlorate in drinking water. The substance, which is heavily used in rocket fuel, will now make the object of such regulations, EPA decided.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/EPA-Will-Regulate-Perchlorate-Levels-in-Drinking-Water-182511.shtml

The agency decided that the issue can no longer be ignored, and that limitations need to exist on the amount of the stuff that can be present in drinking water without significantly affecting the population.

[fast_e_man]

Proof of water on Mars is not news. In 2008 Phoenix lander landed on a dust covered glacier near the north arctic circle. The attached photo shows the solid ice that was exposed by the descent engine thrust at touchdown. We landed on a field of solid ice about 4cm below the surface.

After a couple months on the surface, we noticed what appeared to be droplets of condensate accumulating on the lander leg struts. Best guess was humidity levels under the lander were high enough to enable water droplet formation. Daytime temperature data confirmed temps that could support water droplet formation within 50 cm on the surface. Unfortunately, the robotic arm did not carry spectroscopy instrumentation to analyze emission spectra. So liquid water droplets on Mars surface was an un-confirmable theory.

The Phoenix instruments did find perchlorates in the Mars regolith (soil). There are regions on earth (dry high altitude deserts of South America) where bacteria feed on perchlorates. So, presence of perchlorates in proximity to water has the astrobiology community excited. Perchlorates are very strong oxidizers that breakdown organic compounds, so complex organics in the presence of perchlorates is not likely.

Fast forward to yesterday's announcement by NASA. We already have evidence (although not proof) that humidity levels on Mars can enable seasonal water condensation. If you envision a "salt cocktail" the freezing point can be lowered up to 80 K. Yesterday's announcement is a confirmation of seasonal salt hydration in the equatorial region. It's possible those hydrated salts obtained their moisture from atmospheric condensation and/or subsurface sources. However, it's not clear that yesterday's announcement shows proof of liquid salt water flows.

Still, I think this is great science.

[Jim Richards]

water ice or frozen CO2?

[Crowbob]

As blasphemous as it may be to some, I think the question of whether there's water on Mars is about as relevant to my life as the question about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

NASA is clearly making a bid for more money. Money that does not exist. And even if it did, I think it should be spent on getting rid of the damn moles in my back yard.

[Jim Richards]

I can't imagine it being blasphemous to anyone. What's relevant to your life may not be their concern.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

As blasphemous as it may be to some, I think the question of whether there's water on Mars is about as relevant to my life as the question about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

NASA is clearly making a bid for more money. Money that does not exist. And even if it did, I think it should be spent on getting rid of the damn moles in my back yard.

Send them to Mars?

[fast_e_man]

water ice or frozen CO2?


Jim, Water ice, H2O, confirmed by thermal evolved gas analysis

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by flipper35

Send them to Mars?

Or, to make the task easier, or even possible, just let the moles stay in Crowbob's back yard and send him to Mars.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by fast_e_man

water ice or frozen CO2?


Jim, Water ice, H2O, confirmed by thermal evolved gas analysis

Thanks for the info!

[fast_e_man]

As blasphemous as it may be to some, I think the question of whether there's water on Mars is about as relevant to my life as the question about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

NASA is clearly making a bid for more money. Money that does not exist. And even if it did, I think it should be spent on getting rid of the damn moles in my back yard.

Think climate change on steroids. A relatively warm planet with oceans and substantial atmosphere undergoes a dramatic climate change, eventually evolving into a cold dry largely desert landscape with very little atmosphere. What happened and why? Is Mars an analog for Earth? None of this rids Crowbob's backyard of moles.

However, it does have relevance to questions facing Earth, excites and inspires many people and helps encourage the youth of America to pursue STEM based careers, which is vital to the US maintaining a technical innovation edge in the world.

Not everyone gets stoked about the same things, that's what makes the world an interesting place.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

can you really afford to pay your way all the way to Mars? That's pretty expensive trip.
I'm sure you weren't referring to wasting EVERYONE ELSE'S money to do it.

Oh come on Sammy... I suppose you would have us spend our money on food or medical research and frivolous stuff like that?

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Oh come on Sammy... I suppose you would have us spend our money on food or medical research and frivolous stuff like that?

Or ..... maybe we could STOP wasting money that we DO NOT HAVE?

The national debt clock is now at $18,405,385,800,000

That means we have already spent $18 trillion MORE than we have.

I suggest we STOP spending money we don't have to check out a rock that is 224.3 million miles away, just to satisfy someone's boredom and curiosity.


Every year they blow $18.5 billion (again, money WE DO NOT HAVE) and in return we get some pictures and wild guesses and estimates. They don't even have anything to send into space.
What a ****ing scam.


Here's my suggestion: make NASA funding voluntary. On the tax form, leave a blank space for people to write in how much OF THEIR OWN MONEY they want to give to NASA. Above and beyond taxes owed.

Let's see how generous and curious they are when they have to foot the bill.

[scottmandue]

[fast_e_man]

The national debt clock is now at $18,405,385,800,000

That means we have already spent $18 trillion MORE than we have.

I suggest we STOP spending money we don't have to check out a rock that is 224.3 million miles away, just to satisfy someone's boredom and curiosity.

Sammy,

Just to give some perspective to your concerns about the national debt. The annual NASA budget is about 0.5% of the US Federal budget. Projections for FY16 are the Mars Exploration Program will be less than 1/36 of NASA's budget.

So, cancelling all Mars expenditures will cut ~ 0.014% of the US budget.

Yup, That will sure move the needle on the national debt.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by fast_e_man

Sammy,

Just to give some perspective to your concerns about the national debt. The annual NASA budget is about 0.5% of the US Federal budget. Projections for FY16 are the Mars Exploration Program will be less than 1/36 of NASA's budget.

So, cancelling all Mars expenditures will cut ~ 0.014% of the US budget.

Yup, That will sure move the needle on the national debt.

So what's that got to do with the moles in Crowbob's yard ?

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Or, to make the task easier, or even possible, just let the moles stay in Crowbob's back yard and send him to Mars.

Hee Hee! Good one!

Problem is, you assume I'm not already there!

What NASA needs to do is wait until a popular sort of geeky-technical movie comes out about the exploration of Mars with all the requisite drama, cinematography and star power.

THEN announce they've discovered via incontrovertible evidence that there's flowing water!

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

can you really afford to pay your way all the way to Mars? That's pretty expensive trip.
I'm sure you weren't referring to wasting EVERYONE ELSE'S money to do it.

So... If it was offered to you, you wouldn't go?

[86 ssinit]

Water who cares about water. Does it have internet service!!!

[fast_e_man]

Water who cares about water. Does it have internet service!!!

Why yes, yes there is internet service --- via UHF "wifi". You just need to wait for your wifi hotspot to activate, twice per day on average (~80% of the planet gets service to orbiters). Then wait for the 25-30 min round trip light time to/from earth.

So it's kind of like having Jones Intercable in the 90's or trying to get competent customer service from Comcast today.