Grady's car on The Samba

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Many high $ eBay auctions get relisted in a few weeks with seller complaining original buyer didn't come through.

[javadog]

You have any reason to suspect the high bid in this case?

JR

[Shaun @ Tru6]

History.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Let me put it another way.

Based on Grady's car's final sale, predict the final sale of this car:

Porsche 911 S | eBay

[javadog]

Hard to say, without seeing it in person. $120k, maybe? Has a little rust, so the repaint will be a little more expensive than normal. Worth spending some money on, though.

JR

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Based on Grady's 68 base car coming in at $80K, the value of the 70S is about $175K.

[javadog]

Maybe. I can see spending $30k on it right off the bat, maybe more. That one you are selling?

JR

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Yes, I'm selling it. Seriously Jeff, Grady's car is not even on the Hagerty scale. It would be a 6 or 7 if the scale extended to barn finds. A #4 (daily driver) Hagerty 68 911 is at $46,900 and flat. A #1 (show winner) Hagerty is $133K and flat.

The 70S I'm selling is between a 3 and 4 needing paint. Hagerty 4 is $111K and 3 is $137K. Both are climbing. A 70S Hagerty 1 is $214K.

A Hagety 3 70S is more valuable than a Hagerty 1 68 base car. Which would you rather put money into?

I don't have time for the math in Excel, but if Grady's car has a real market value of $80K, this 70S value is closer to a 250 GTO.

Which of course it isn't.

[javadog]

I don't think the math works that way, nor do I agree with some of the Hagerty valuations, but I can see your car being a $150k car. It's all about fixing the little things and how it is presented. I think your auction would have benefited from a little more detailing and small repairs done to the car, maybe some more history and photos.

I wish you luck with the sale.

JR

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Whether you agree or not, they are based on a consistent methodology common to the two cars.

I agree on the detailing and small repairs. History and additional photos are available and I have found their request creates a conversation.

Thank you. I have an offer on the table right now and may end the auction early.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by aigel

What I don't get is the allure of the longhoods vs. the rest of the aircooled which are all better cars, minus the mid-years, maybe. I guess it is the style, lightness and simplicity. And the fact that most every place around the world these have rusted away ...

G

The new cars are not "better", better to some maybe and worse for others.
I have had many 911's and I like them all but prefer the 2.0 SWB the most.
As the cars gained displacement the HP. did not go up progressively with the added engine size, they were detuned, they became softer, easier to drive. Passing emissions became an important consideration. They make power at lower RPM and will not rev. like the earlier cars, more like a common car and less like a sport/race car.
They got heavier to meet the new safety regulations and to accommodate the larger easier to drive engine also for the creature comforts that were demanded for a broader market.
I fell into the "buy the newest you can afford" trap for many years and finial realized I just like driving the early cars more than the later cars and went back, I still have a newer Porsche I take out once in awhile but 10 to 1 drive my SWB more.

[javadog]

I sort of agreed with that notion until I drove a 2014 turbo S yesterday.

JR

Hagerty is incented to show higher values - whether real or not

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

Hagerty is incented to show higher values - whether real or not

Based on Grady's car, a Hagerty 4 should be about $200K then.

And for those wondering how Grady let his car get to that condition, let me remind you about Warren's 73S at time of his passing. Warren had aspirations of getting Annie back on the road, but his health and finances did not allow. Sometimes life gets in the way.

[javadog]

Hagerty's numbers can stay flat, if nothing has sold recently. I say "sold', meaning one they know about, which may not be meaningful. There are a lot of sales that take place off of the radar. I've sold twenty cars in the last 5 or 6 years and none of them would be known to Hagerty. This is especially true of the really nice examples of a particular car.

Then there's the argument that they are fudging the values to influence the premiums people pay. Not saying they do that, but that notion is in the heads of a lot of people.

JR

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Many high $ eBay auctions get relisted in a few weeks with seller complaining original buyer didn't come through.

Originally Posted by javadog

You have any reason to suspect the high bid in this case?

JR

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

History.

I looked at the bid history on Grady's car and found something interesting.

There were two bidders who offered 80K and both had been bidding on the car for a long while. The first time 80K is offered, according to the history, is at 4:13:08 pm, just 25 seconds before the auction ends. However, that bid doesn't win. The other bidder's ID appears as the winner, for 80K, with time stamps of 4:11:27 and 4:11:52 pm.

Why didn't these early bids appear chronologically in the history? My guess is that these were automatic bids based on the bidder's "maximum bid" and kicked in when the other bidder was rejected or dropped out after the end of the auction.

Does this sound reasonable to those who are familiar with ebay bidding? Is the reason why the eventually winner shows two bids for the same amount, 25 seconds apart, reflect that he was contacted after the auction ended to see if he wanted his max bid to be considered and he had to reconfirm?

I only point this out to underline the observations that a completed sale is never guaranteed when the auction ends. The bid history on this one already appears to be a bit shaky.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by javadog

I sort of agreed with that notion until I drove a 2014 turbo S yesterday.

JR

I agree, a 2014 Turbo S would be as much fun, or a Carrera GT etc. but that also supports the high price point of these early cars when we need these high end, big $ new Porsches to compare the early car driving experience with.

[ficke]

A sale is never completed till money changes hands and the car, so yeah time will till if it is a deal. You never know with e-bay sells, there is so much gaming going on with it.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Let me put it another way.

Based on Grady's car's final sale, predict the final sale of this car:

Porsche 911 S | eBay

Big difference between the cars is rust. Grady's car has none, yours does. Both cars will need a total resto but the dry car is a lot easier and simply more valuable because of the original condition of the sheet metal. I know that anything can be fixed, (and will be, if the car is valuable enough), but collectors place a huge premium on dry, straight cars. You have to remember that in Europe, virtually all early 911s disintegrated long ago. Any rust present is a huge turn-off. If you can see a little, there is usually a lot.

You also do not seem to understand the SWB market. Grady's car, especially with its history, is probably quite a bit more valuable than an ordinary 1970 911S as the collector market evolves on these cars. I think that the price on his car will definitely hold, I expected it to go higher.