Gun use for home defense?

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by Z-man;8834019http://www.extension.org/pages/70030/6-reasons-why-wasp-spray-is-not-a-substitute-for-pepper-spray#.Vh0eVZRHaK0

If you desire a non-lethal deterrent than I suggest switching over to conventional mace/pepper spray/bear spray. Wasp spray has toxins that can be fatal or can cause blindness in humans. Lis the legalities of using a toxic substance on someone when mace is so readily available.

-Z

^^ Completely agree. Wasp spray, besides being far less effective on humans, opens a huge federal legal can of worms if used in a manner other than its EPA label approved use. The lawyers would line up to cash-in on that one. Pepper spray is legal for self defense in all 50 states.
6 Reasons Why Wasp Spray is Not a Substitute for Pepper Spray - eXtension
Oklahoma Personal Defense - The Myth of Wasp Spray

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Hoping to keep this out of PARF. Appreciate an honest discussion.

We do not, nor have ever (in the last 20+ years) owned a gun of any type. We have 3 dogs, and live in a relatively safe area. I have always traveled and 2 of our 3 kids are in college. I've been told that the odds of actually needing/using a gun successfully for home defense are far lower than the odds of having a terrible accident with one. I know there are many enthusiasts here so here's my "real world" question:

Have any gun owning/carrying Pelicans actually needed or used your gun for home defense? I understand that it may provide a sense of security, but that's not the question. Have any Pelicans been threatened by a break-in while at home and used your gun to diffuse the situation? Interested in your own experience, not news or blog stories. Thanks.

I own a gun specifically for home defense, but it is intended to defend my home from an over-reaching gubmint.
protection from an intruder would just be icing on the cake but that has not yet been necessary and I doubt that it ever will.
knock-knock-knock, on wood.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Z-man

KC - thanks for rubbing it in!

Someday I will experience what it is to live in a free state..: someday...

Yep...I don't know anyone where I live who doesn't have at least 3 or 4 guns in their home (more common than computers/internet access here). You would be more likely to be criticized for not defending your home/property with a gun than the opposite. The consensus would be...what kind of man (or woman) would not be prepared to defend their family? It is their civic duty to be armed and proficient...and to train their children to do the same. As someone posted earlier, it is a necessary tool (much lie a fire alarm or telephone).

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by fintstone

it is a necessary tool

LOL, just LOL.

[varmint]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

^^ Completely agree. Wasp spray, besides being far less effective on humans, opens a huge federal legal can of worms if used in a manner other than its EPA label approved use. The lawyers would line up to cash-in on that one. Pepper spray is legal for self defense in all 50 states.
6 Reasons Why Wasp Spray is Not a Substitute for Pepper Spray - eXtension
Oklahoma Personal Defense - The Myth of Wasp Spray

what happens to you if you blast a can of pepper spray in an enclosed space such as a bedroom?

[HardDrive]

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

^^ Completely agree. Wasp spray, besides being far less effective on humans, opens a huge federal legal can of worms if used in a manner other than its EPA label approved use. The lawyers would line up to cash-in on that one. Pepper spray is legal for self defense in all 50 states.
6 Reasons Why Wasp Spray is Not a Substitute for Pepper Spray - eXtension
Oklahoma Personal Defense - The Myth of Wasp Spray

This just made me laugh. Guess I'll just stick to shooting them with a gun.

[techweenie]

[berettafan]

[berettafan]

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

LOL, just LOL.

Interesting. I know people who can get by without a chainsaw, but it is a necessary for tool for me. I have no municipal police force where I live, what would you recommend as means to secure my home?

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

Interesting. I know people who can get by without a chainsaw, but it is a necessary for tool for me. I have no municipal police force where I live, what would you recommend as means to secure my home?

A "necessary" tool for you. The qualifier makes a difference. It in fact changes the scope of the statement from global to personal. In my current line of work, a Windows-based computer is a necessary tool. The work cannot get done without it. But in several of my other lines of work, I had zero need for any computing device more complicated than a pencil and my brain. You get the tools you need for the jobs you need them for.

A firearm is not a necessary tool. BUT, that doesn't imply that it is not necessary, anywhere at all, for anyone. It's not a binary condition.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Those stats hold true if you are an idiot and do not understand basic firearm safety. If you have even an hour of training (example: nra basic firearms safety course) and apply the four basic principles of safe gun handling, then those numbers are a compete fallacy.

Four basic rules are:
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded
2. Finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you acquire your target
3. Don't point a gun at anything you do not want to destroy
4. Mind your target and what is behind it.

-Z.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

A "necessary" tool for you. The qualifier makes a difference. It in fact changes the scope of the statement from global to personal. In my current line of work, a Windows-based computer is a necessary tool. The work cannot get done without it. But in several of my other lines of work, I had zero need for any computing device more complicated than a pencil and my brain. You get the tools you need for the jobs you need them for.

A firearm is not a necessary tool. BUT, that doesn't imply that it is not necessary, anywhere at all, for anyone. It's not a binary condition.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Those stats hold true if you are an idiot and do not understand basic firearm safety. If you have even an hour of training (example: nra basic firearms safety course) and apply the four basic principles of safe gun handling, then those numbers are a compete fallacy.

Four basic rules are:
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded
2. Finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you acquire your target
3. Don't point a gun at anything you do not want to destroy
4. Mind your target and what is behind it.

-Z.

Agreed.

But some folks simply should not have guns.
The rest of us are just fine with them.

[Racerbvd]

Never fails, someone always post this BS meme. Even though the numbers are exaggerated & it is been shown to be BS.




If that was true, how in the hell am I still alive, guns in the home literally my entire live (except when I was a college), never shot myself or any one else by accident, and I know a lot of others, never happened to them either (but some have been robbed, carjacked, ect), no one shot their foot or any other part of their bodies off and I would bet that many on this board grew up, survived and live with guns today.
Now if liberals would teach their kids about guns, as well as respect, I suspect there would be fewer of the actual gun accidents.

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Education or self defense class. Choose one. His choice is readily apparent.

What the hell, you going to try and teach a criminal Right from Wrong while he rapes your wife & daughter in front of you?

Originally Posted by Z-man

If you desire a non-lethal deterrent than I suggest switching over to conventional mace/pepper spray/bear spray. Wasp spray has toxins that can be fatal or can cause blindness in humans. Plus the legalities of using a toxic substance on someone when mace is so readily available.

-Z

OK, lets say, someone breaks into your house, he or she is in your bedroom doorway, you "choose to spray "Wasp" (Didn't know they made a Anti-White Anglo-Saxon Protestant sprays, does it work on other ethnic groups?) over your locked & loaded, straight shot Glock and the perp runs away.

Two days later, you find out that the 80 year old, sweet Grandmother of 12 who lives down the street, was raped & murdered by the SAME perp that you had dead to rights, get away(one stat that doesn't lie is that criminals are repeat offenders, 68% do it again when they get out of jail,Recidivism | National Institute of Justice )
How do you live with yourself, knowing that because you let a criminal go, a sweet, little old old lady suffered the indignity of being raped before being brutally murdered? Had you shot the criminal when he or she invaded your home in and came into your bedroom in a threatening manner, those 12 kids would still have a Grandmother and her sons & daughters would still have a Mother.







All to real, and notice, those who suggest guns ALSO suggest LEARNING how to use the weapons and spend time at the range so to be proficient with the weapons (I have a indoor range just minutes from my office and have been known to spend lunch hours there
For those who want a Shotgun that isn't cumbersome, I had one of these in the 80s, 12 gauge, 12 shot.,

Again, learn the weapon before firing it.

[techweenie]

Somebody is eating up NRA propaganda.

"The White House directed the CDC to research the causes and prevention of gun violence. The actions included a call for Congress to provide $10 million to the CDC for gun violence research. The prestigious Institute of Medicine convened a special committee of experts to develop a research agenda.

But Congress did not budget money to the CDC for gun violence research. It didn't strip away the legislative language that had chilled CDC activity on guns, either. The research agenda was not formally adopted by anybody."

IOW, no gun violence research has gotten congressional funding since the 1980s. So the CDC study cited does not exist.

However, about 2/3 of gun deaths ARE suicide, and guns are quite a bit more effective for people attempting suicide than other means. I'm not one of the people that thinks 20K annual suicides are part of the same issue. But that still leaves a current rate of 11,000 annual gun deaths that aren't suicide.

New England Journal of Medicine is a more objective source of info on the results of 'gun defense' than the NRA, which is an organization that promotes gun sales and doesn't cite a source for their "stats."

P.S., as for the infographic on Jeanne Assam, it turns out to be kind of an interesting story... http://m.snopes.com/jeanne-assam/

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by varmint

what happens to you if you blast a can of pepper spray in an enclosed space such as a bedroom?

Back up and re-read my earlier posts. Gates, dogs, motion sensor lighting, motion sensor cameras, big-azz lock hardware, pepper spray, and 12GA are just tools. First you acquire the tools, then you train in their proper application and use. Do your homework and no bad guy ever makes it to your bedroom alive.

You are free to set off a can of pepper spray in your bedroom if you like tho.

[sc_rufctr]

[onewhippedpuppy]

Techweenie, it is absolutely your right to not own a gun, which I respect. Interesting though how I respect your right to making that choice, yet you don't respect mine. Amazing how people that often claim to be open minded are typically only open to ideals that align with theirs.