Gun use for home defense?

[Chocaholic]

Hoping to keep this out of PARF. Appreciate an honest discussion.

We do not, nor have ever (in the last 20+ years) owned a gun of any type. We have 3 dogs, and live in a relatively safe area. I have always traveled and 2 of our 3 kids are in college. I've been told that the odds of actually needing/using a gun successfully for home defense are far lower than the odds of having a terrible accident with one. I know there are many enthusiasts here so here's my "real world" question:

Have any gun owning/carrying Pelicans actually needed or used your gun for home defense? I understand that it may provide a sense of security, but that's not the question. Have any Pelicans been threatened by a break-in while at home and used your gun to diffuse the situation? Interested in your own experience, not news or blog stories. Thanks.

[Cairo94507]

Lighting and your phone are your best defense against criminals. Unless you carried a gun professionally and trained monthly, or have been a shooter all of your life, I would suggest you are better off not bringing one into your home now. The accident rate seems astronomical unless the above 2 conditions are met.

I carried for 25 years every day and got rid of my guns at the end of my former career. That was almost 20 years ago and I have never regretted my decision. Shooting and gun handling is a perishable skill and unless you are willing to make a significant time investment into learning & maintaining that skill set, better off without a gun in the house. Now, that assumes you are not in anyway involved in anything shady that would attract criminals to your home or you don't live in an area with a high crime rate. If I lived in an urban (crime ridden) area, I would reevaluate my decision.

[Seahawk]

Twice.

Both times were people "investigating" the barns I use for storage and as shop space, about 1/4 mile from my house.

They fled soon after I started my truck and turned up the driveway and I did not give chase. I simply felt better being armed. When I was renting our now scrapped small farm house and barn father up the driveway, they had a 68 912 Targa taken from the barn late at night.

The criminal walked on the farm then pushed the car to the main road. That was almost twenty years ago and since then I have installed cameras and motion sensing lights. That is why I didn't give chase.

Having a gun for home defense only makes sense if you are comfortable with actually using the weapon as intended and get the training to do so accurately and responsibly.

It doesn't sound like you are quite there, Mike.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Agree with the above - a gun is absolutely a last resort. If you can quietly call "911" as you shelter in place with a perp unaware you're there, that's the best case but it may not be realistic in all situations - and every situation will be different. If you buy a gun, you'd best be prepared to use it. Get something you can extract and use simply and as second nature. Guns with complex safeties aren't great - if / when a situation happens were you need it you'll be stressed, maybe not thinking clearly, possibly in the middle of the night, half asleep, with poor lighting, etc. It needs to be so suing you can use safely in your (near) sleep.

Also, get one now if you're considering it. As time goes on the laws, restrictions, etc. only get more onerous and an option you have today might not be there on a year or two. Just something to consider.

[Craig T]

Unfortunately, I have a very real experience…and the reason why I will always have a large dog and a nightstand firearm.

In 1988, fresh out of the USAF, and with a 6 month old daughter, my wife and I bought a home in Chino, CA. It was a good neighborhood of newer track house, made up mostly of young families. I was not a gun collector, but my grandfather had left me a couple guns when he died, including a S&W 629 .44 mag. I kept the 44 under some sweatshirts on the top closet shelf.

At 3am I woke to a loud bang at the back door. Two seconds later my normally friendly golden retriever went nuts. That's when I grabbed the gun and walked toward the back door with the gun pointed in front of me. There was a huge screwdriver stuck into the door jam where he tried to pry the back door open and the hinges were broken from the jam. When he couldn't pry the door open he kicked it with what the police said was a size 14 work boot. My dog obviously heard the bang and went after him. He knock the trash bins over scrambling over the gate at the side yard.

The policeman doing the report told me to "give that dog a steak because he may have saved my life". I told him the robber should give him a steak because I was standing in the hallway with a loaded .44 by the time he kicked the door free. I would have won that battle.

A person who burgles your house when your not home is one thing. When that psycho kicked that door in he knew it would wake us up and he must have been prepared to deal with that.

Every house since has had a burglar alarm, a gun, and a guard dog.

[kach22i]

I took a concealed weapons course class a few years ago. One of the instructors was the lawyer which helped get the law passed in Michigan.

His home defense system comprised of; hanging his shotgun above the archway to his walk-in closet (on the inside face). He is a tall man, his kids at the time were young/small.

His nightly routine was to pull the gun down off the brackets holding it up, and handling it.

This was done every night, so that the familiarity of where the gun was, how it felt, and so forth were all second nature to him.

Last thing I would want to do is drop a gun from a height in the dark, a recipe for accidental discharge if ever I heard one.

My stuff is all locked up and hidden away, not sure if even I could find it without several hours notice it's so buried.

[Otter74]

One thing a gun is not going to do is defuse a situation.

I don't think you should have a gun for home defense unless you are prepared to use it if really, really needed. And shooting someone is serious business, even if in self-defense.

I own a pistol, but not for home defense. I inherited it from my dad, and kept it because I thought learning to shoot was a worthwhile skill. Something I'm finally getting around to.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

.. I understand that it may provide a sense of security,..

sense?

Do fire extinguishers provide only a sense of security?

Both are security tools. Sometimes they are used, but one hopes that the other layers of safety stop the problem first.

[Craig T]

I agree that for 90% of home break in situations, owning a gun puts the homeowner in more danger of being hurt…Or worse, shooting somebody by accident.

In my nightmare above, the gun was there and ready, but ultimately it was the dog who diffused the situation. As others have said…If you are not willing to train, practice, and be prepared to use it…DON'T own one for that purpose. A dog is the MOST effective way to prevent a home invasion anyway.

The situation I was in did not just go away just because I had a gun ready. My wife was traumatized and neither of us sleep well for years. I would wake up in panic dreams and grab the gun. I eventually put it in a safe because I was afraid I might shoot my wife or daughter. We eventually moved to a gated property and bought a large mastiff.

Had I not had the dog and shot the invader, we would have a whole different set of emotional damage. …But I still keep a gun locked in a nightstand combination safe.

[red-beard]

If you are going to arm yourself, get something you can handle and learn how to use it. Train to be proficient and then take time and think about the different things that can happen. Finally, do everything you can to avoid a situation in the first place: lights, alarms, locks, etc. Pre-think everything though. Make yourself a bad target and those types will go for something easier.

On the question of "what should I get?", the answer everyone says is a shotgun. The thought being that you just point in the "general direction" and you'll get an automatic hit. Almost no one I know who has a shotgun for the home actually trains with it.

Single O buckshot is basically a bunch of 30 caliber pellets. They are round lead. They penetrate drywall very easily and will go through multiple walls. Each "round" has 12-15 pellets. So firing two rounds from a shotgun is like emptying the magazine of a 25-30 round rifle. The "spread" is a lot smaller than you think. I saw the results of a police shotgun fired at a car from 10 feet away. The spread was about the size of my palm.

Pistols are generally a good choice. They are small and can be placed in a safe close to the bed for easy access. Revolvers are stupid simple and generally go bang every time you pull the trigger. I like a 3" .357, since you can also shoot .38 spl. with it. Use hollow-points to minimize penetration in walls.

Finally, when the US army wants to clear a house/room, they use a short barreled 5.56/.223 rifle. I prefer the idea of a 16" barrel (length including pinned flash hider). It is easy to operate. You are less likely to miss. And the drywall penetration is less than most pistol rounds. Again, using hollow points is a good idea. Training is fun and easy. Recoil is virtually nothing. Most of the versions today have rails which can mount easy to operate light/laser sights.

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

If you buy a gun, you'd best be prepared to use it.

With a keen understanding that being "prepared" goes well beyond learning the mechanics of your weapon and becoming competent at creating a nice tight group on a target. Many people hesitate at the crucial moment, reluctant to create that same group in another human being's torso, which is not really all that surprising. If I was a bad guy - particularly in the close confines of the home of a typical American family - I'd rather face someone skilled in firearm use but who is hesitant than I would someone less skilled but with a solid and proper defensive mind-set.

Even if you're confident you're not the guy who might hesitate, can you say the same for your wife? If you can't, then you need a Plan B anyway - which you might just determine is the one that makes the most sense for your family.

[HardDrive]

No, I've never needed a weapon in a home defense situation.

I keep my .40 sig 226 locked in a keyed lock box in my bedroom. The key is in a location away from the gun, and both are high up and out of sight. The key is on an elastic cord so I can't drop it. I consider the chances of having to use a gun for defense infinitesimally small.

I concur with Otter74. Shooting someone is going to be a life altering decision for all involved, regardless of the outcome. I would only pull the trigger as an absolute last line of defense.

[berettafan]

own a few including one ready for self defense use. very, very ,very happy to have never needed to use it.

would not feel comfortable if I didn't have one. I simply believe it's my job to do all I can to keep my family safe.

[Craig T]

You can buy a Boerboel for less then the price of a Colt Python or S&W Dirty Harry 29. A Boerboel on his pillow at the foot of your bed is a MUCH better solution.

[Gogar]

Seems like these days having a gun in your hand when you call 911 is the best way to get you shot, in your own home, by the cops.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Finally, when the US army wants to clear a house/room, they use a short barreled 5.56/.223 rifle. I prefer the idea of a 16" barrel (length including pinned flash hider). It is easy to operate. You are less likely to miss. And the drywall penetration is less than most pistol rounds.

Well, perhaps true, but you're still talking about a high velocity rifle round. It has massive penetration. Do you really want to get dragged into court by an overzealous prosecutor, or the civil attorney representing some dirtball you shot, and have them hold up a .223 with laser sights and a tactical light on it?

Skip to the 1:30 mark.

[fintstone]

I once had several large biker types breaking down my door in the middle of the night knowing we in there and I had no gun. For some reason, they reconsidered. I suspect they thought I was armed (I was not). I moved soon afterwards (as members of this "biker gang" were frequently guests of my duplex neighbor). Sure wished I had a gun that night. When I was younger, I felt a bit more invincible than today and figured that I could "handle myself"...Not so much these days. Plus I live in a rural area like Seahawk and if I call 911, the response might be quite long. I prefer to have weapons. A pump 12 gauge for intruders and some ARs in case of a zombie apocalypse. I really don't practice, but am confident of my ability to use either in the type scenario I envision as I can see anyone coming a long ways away, have lights and an alarm.

[rfuerst911sc]

Unfortunately just watch the news and there are plenty of stories of bad things happening to people in their own homes. And what do you hear the people say ? This is a good quiet neighborhood ! It can happen anywhere at anytime. I am not a paranoid type of person but I do own guns. I would label myself as a casual gun owner. I go to the pistol range maybe 6 times a year so no where near an expert in gun handling. But I have handled guns for a good portion of my life so not a novice either. I would have no problem shooting an intruder if I had to but hope I never have to. We have a burglar alarm, three yappy dogs and then the guns as last resort. I don't ever want to be in a position of a bad guy/s in my house and I can't defend myself. I may lose the battle but I'm not going down as a sheep. I would imagine if your only line of defense is the 911 call you just made those minutes ( how long ??? ) would seem like an eternity. And while you are waiting for the police to arrive and you find yourself with the perp face to face that just broke your door down what are you going to do ? Tell him you called 911 ? Good luck with whatever your decision is and be safe.

[vash]

Originally Posted by kach22i

I took a concealed weapons course class a few years ago. One of the instructors was the lawyer which helped get the law passed in Michigan.

His home defense system comprised of; hanging his shotgun above the archway to his walk-in closet (on the inside face). He is a tall man, his kids at the time were young/small.

His nightly routine was to pull the gun down off the brackets holding it up, and handling it.

This was done every night, so that the familiarity of where the gun was, how it felt, and so forth were all second nature to him.

Last thing I would want to do is drop a gun from a height in the dark, a recipe for accidental discharge if ever I heard one.

My stuff is all locked up and hidden away, not sure if even I could find it without several hours notice it's so buried.

Guns don't go off when dropped. Not good guns.


Sent via Jedi mind trick.

[GH85Carrera]

Back in my single days I had a lady friend spend the night with me. About 2:30 someone was banging on my door. At the time I had a Doberman that was super friendly to everyone. She was staring intently at the door and growling and making low guttural nasty sounds that would make me wet my pants if she looked at me and did that. Whoever it was decided they did not want to come through and I was glad. My gun was locked in a safe and unloaded. All I had was a big butcher knife and my dog.

The young lady friend guest said it was likely a crazy ex-boyfriend that stalks her.

I married a different lady later in life. We have dachshunds now and they will bark and alert but of no value in defense. If someone is in my house they will be shot if they enter our bedroom before the police get there. No warnings just bullets.