ACDC Thunderstruck - Guitar Explanation
 

Want to understand what the guitar differences are.

Is the first guitar the rhythm guitar? At 50 seconds in another guitar compliments the first and the range of the sound expands to where the result is intoxicating. Is it the second guitar that opens the sound or is it a function of a slide bar on a mixing board, or both? Been wrestling with my daughter about what makes the sound at 50 seconds in. She says it is a less complex but complimentary guitar sound (melody?) and she is guessing it may be a bass guitar.

At 1:35, another guitar plays a more routine rock riff.

Can someone briefly note what happens in layman's terms?

Five guys. One singer and a drummer. That leaves three guitars. I hear no deep bass riff but plenty of bass drum thumping. I guess there are no rules, and this is a work of art. Is there a standard protocol that is followed? Like a math equation? Forgive me, just intrigued why this song is so wonderful to listen to.

Wish I could hear it without voices.

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The second guitar, I guess you could call it the rhythm guitar, starts in the left speaker at 50 seconds.

The bass is slowly fading in from about :38 but he's all in at :50 when the 2nd guitar comes in.

There's at least 4 or 5 distinct guitar parts in the song, the third starts at 1:34

The huge "AC/DC" sound like the sound at 2:28 and more importantly 2:43 you hear is when the 1st, 2nd, sometimes 3rd, 4th etc. guitar parts all play the same stuff together to make it sound super huge.

That sound is lots of times called "Doubling" where the two guitars on the 'outside' (one in each speaker) play together to give a super wide sounding guitar sound.

The sound at 3:13 (not the solo, the other sound) is probably the most clear example of "doubling." Fun!


SmileWavy

Yes!!! I hear the bass at 38 seconds in. Separate from drums. Thanks. I thought it was drums when I posted but I can hear the volume increase.

Just curious. Music noob asking questions.

Agree left speaker at 50 seconds in but right speaker volume does not change. Simple stereo effect but they did it right.

When all guitars are playing at the same, it is huge.

Thanks so much for your insight. Had a beer or two. Alone in shop. Stereo cranked. I get into song critiques across a week or more at a time per each. Odd, I guess.

I have told this story before but my daughter was taking guitar lessons abut eight years ago. I told her to look up the "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" tab and learn that. She said "It's too hard, Daddy" She is still grounded.

Yes. Have heard that effect before in songs. Effective.

Great song! Always revs me up! Guitars are really awesome!

On another note, Angus only uses 50w Marshalls and no effects. IIRC, he started using a wireless for live shows and felt they gave a compression effect. So he started using it when recording too. But he's got a pretty legendary, raw Gibson/Marshall tone that you can pretty much only get with a Gibson and a Marshall. That gain is from the amp being dimed, not an internal gain knob or a pedal.

Songs are like the arrangement of furniture in a room. Each piece has its place in a room to create an overall effect or sound. Guys like Richards,Townsend, Angus and Forgerty among others are like conductors who have a sound in
their heads that they want implement. When they play you can see them listening to all the parts and how they interplay with each.other. James Brown was said to fine a musician if he came in late on a part. At the last Stones concert I went to the guy* behind me said Jagger cut a verse from Sympathy to pick up 17 seconds that they were behind on. Now tell me if that isn't down to business.




* The 4 guys behind me were all in their mid 60's and were attending every show on the tour at 500 a pop plus travel food and lodging.Also the 4 people next to me were doing the same thing. Real Stone heads.

Wow, thanks for that perspective from a pro Gogar! I love music, but other than listening, my brain just doesn't operate in that realm :(. I do know a few things after attending thousands of shows however....the good ones make it look "easy", and effortless, and it ain't ;). A local musician used to play in Muddy's band....amazes me when he backs/sits in with someone he's never played with before....it's like they've been on the road for 20 years....

Bob,
Here is my take.

Bass: Single note drone for most of the entire song.

Guitar 1: Angus. You can think of the opening hammer on/pull off lick as the lead guitar. He never really stops playing this riff for the entire song. Except the solo and the aforementioned "big double" when everyone playing the same chords....

Guitar 2: Malcolm. Your 2nd guitar at :50 can be considered a rhythm guitar, that is doing a muted staccato picking. All part of the build up.
That 2nd guitar at 1:35 now starts playing the routine rock power chords, which is clearly the rhythm guitar.
You'll notice at 1:30, the :50 thing is gone. All this time, the lead guitar is still playing the opening riff.

Bob, I love your curiosity. Are you a big (classic) rock fan?
Have you ever tried to learn guitar?

That's not how music works.
More like he forgot the words, and the band had to adjust.

Needs more cowbell.

Well, looks like you're just going to have to learn it yourself Bob....

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In simpler terms.....the first part is Angus
The second part was Malcolm.

Overall its called magic

Thanks for all the discussion and input. It's a treat.

I did some Googling and the (one) story went that Angus said he had this "thing" he was working on and his brother listened and said he had a rhythm for that. Like, he just had this stash of self-created music in his head he could draw from that fit. Probably why they are called musical artists, eh?

I listened closely for the rhythm to fall out at 1:30 to free up hands for the 1:35 riff but I can't pick it up. I do notice something changes at 1:30 with respect to range.

FWIW: I only took piano lessons for a year as a kid. Also, bought a Buddy Guy Strat for my daughter. Black with white polka dots.

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THAT is what separates a real pro from the mere mortals.

I was smart enough to hire a pro to hang our new fancy front door that my wife insisted we needed. I loved watching him work. Measure twice, cut one and it was perfect. He never stopped to read instructions or back track. That door is still solid and works perfect.

The same is true for concrete work, cooking a meal, driving a race car or a million other tasks. The real pros make it look easy. It never is.

Oh man I love that version with Steve n seagulls.
Fun watching them play, the anvil, the spoons bouncing on the drum, the driving riff from the banjo. Too cool!

My ears arent as sensitive due to the Marshall treatment, but it kinds sounds like Angus is panning left to right in some places.

There only a couple songs that give me goose bumps when I hear them starting. Can't you hear me knocking is one.

Amen. It doesn't get any better than that.

That guy's got some talent.

JR

Oh man, that sounds so good. Lot of people don't understand that you gotta let it breathe. A good Tele always helps too.

Hopefully, mine sounds something like that one.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1446170467.jpg

A great tune with that intoxicating AC/DC groove they were famous for. Classic layering of tracks as it builds up. There are only 2 guitarists in the band but at one point they have 5-6 guitar tracks layered in for a massive sound. I think Mutt Lange produced that album and it was a winner.

Funny, I didn't care for these guys when they first came out in the late 70s. I couldn't stand their vocals and thought the lyrics were crude. I missed out because they have grown on me over the years and there are a dozen AC/DC hits that are sure-thing cover songs even today.

see also -
Reelin in the Years - Steely Dan?
Hotel California (last 24 bars)?


Bill K

Playa76911S asked Wayne what he paid for his 917 when he was looking to buy a fab car Laser GT.

So........WTF?......Like,..how long will it take me at 59, with no musical background, and not much free time, to get as good as Angus/Malcolm?

Is it a Youtube video watching thing in spare time with a couple weeks of practice or is there more?

:D

I listen to it daily. This song is special.

Best song intro ever, for this layman, is "Stay With Me". Gotta be some Ronnie Wood input.

Pretty much all said. Intro guitar is centered, then pans right when second comes in. 3rd is complimentary rhythm track, then converging as "doubling" at various points. ACDC never did much for me on an artistic / lyric / storytelling level, but Angus is a beast and the post production / mixing is top drawer.
For pure guitar virtuosity not many get even close to Jeff Beck.
Here's an alternate version of thunderstruck, just for fun: http://youtu.be/e4Ao-iNPPUc

Oh , then there's Joe Satriani. ... http://youtu.be/CgUwD9e8uNM The solo section from 5:00 to 5:55 or so span so many technical boundaries it hard to count them all.

Sorry I can't embed YouTube - on my phone & the newest app version is a hot mess.

Pulled link up and pal who hangs out with me at the shop in the evenings says "I saw him play at the Cleveland Palace" Awesome.

Then he says after vid "Load in Boogie with Stu?"

Sweet!

Intro guitar is right speaker only.

Great post. Thanks!

Thanks for reminding me why I love my Stone's records so much!

Getting as good as Angus or Malcom not likely. Becoming a decent guitarist is possible. There are guys/gals that do it when they're older.

Personally, I'm struggling at age 48, literally a week from 49. It's much harder than it seems and takes a real commitment. Something I've always struggled with. I plan on making some real gains in the next year. It's something I'd really like to accomplish.

It's never been easier to learn guitar. I mean, it really doesn't get any easier than it is now. When I started around 1984, there was no online TAB, no Youtube demos and very few TAB books. You ran to the pharmacy each month to see which songs the latest guitar mag. had TAB'ed out and they were usually pretty sloppy. Sometimes you could buy instructional audio or video tapes from ads in the back of the mags (wait 6-8 wks. for delivery). For me it was "play, pause, rewind, play, pause" for hours upon hours every day after school and all day on weekends.

Nowadays you can go to songsterr.com and find any song in the world TAB'ed out with a follow-along play options. You can find lessons on Youtube with slow motion and TAB running along the bottom of the screen. You can find a live concert video of any guitar here, taken on an iPhone, that shows every trick in the book. These days it's nothing more than a will to learn and practice. The tools are all just a click away and they're free.

This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA50zteAbeA

I never met him, despite living in SF area and being rater involved with the music scene... but from multiple sources he's a true gentleman as well as phenom guitarist.

As for pan right left or center, who cares? It's rock 'n roll.

As for getting good, the rule of thumb is 10k hours gets you proficient at most things. Exceptional is another thing.... or as the jazz guys say - the first 20 years are the hardest.

BTW I've done my time in the trenches :: Freeborn Guitars :: . After 30+ years running power tools I don't do much electric music. The acoustic equivalent of shredding is best done by my pal Woody Mann:
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Keep in mind, I have been listening to this song for weeks. For me, it's why does it sound so intoxicating when the rhythm guitar kicks in at 51 seconds. Aside from how they compliment each other, it has to be how it was produced, like you mentioned, with terrific stereo separation. I do pick up some movement right towards left later in the song but that is just with the lead riff. It's gets pretty busy.

Nice vid on the acoustic guitar by your pal.

Now that is diplomacy.:)

I do still have that Strat I bought my daughter...............

Don't know if I will make a choice to find the 10k hours Charles mentions, but with 100 hours invested, bet I would appreciate music more.

Just sit on the couch unplugged and practice while you watch TV. Learn D, A and G. Now you can play "Ball and Chain" by Social D. and "Dead flowers" by The Stones and a bunch of other songs. Then branch out from there.

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I am another AC/DC fan. I can play music on my computer and iPhone and even in my car. That is the extent of my musical ability.

If I watched that performance in a TV show or movie I would figure it is just Hollywood BS. How in the world can a guy play the guitar like that and only use one hand? I had no idea it was even possible.

This popped up on my Facebook feed from my pal Jennifer. She's playing through an Organ Patch that makes her guitar sound like, well,,, an organ... Boy howdy Jeff's got some chops...
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wiki:

"It started off from a little trick I had on guitar. I played it to Mal and he said 'Oh, I've got a good rhythm idea that will sit well in the back.' We built the song up from that.

Yes! Did not see this on Wiki but another site that said about the same. That rhythm IS the tune.

When movies want to use the song, $500k...and they pay it.

The local MBA team AKA "the Thunder" got permission to use Thunderstruck for the first home game. I am sure they paid big for that right. An acquaintance of mine managed to get to see that first game. He said the atmosphere was electric with the song pounding loud and the team players running onto the floor.