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-   -   Lancia Delta Integrale (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/888913-lancia-delta-integrale.html)

beepbeep 07-27-2016 11:10 PM

There is really nothing weird with this kind of engine. It is rather straight-forward 4-cylinder EFI OHC European design. A rather simple one as well, compared to say SAAB B204 or such. Throttle is cable operated and ignition is conventional dizzy + Hall sensor type.

As always with turbocharged engines, air leaks are no-no. I fabricated an adapter by glueing an air nipple on hockey puck, which I jam into rubber hose going into turbo and pressurize via air compressor.

I would wait with investigating mechanical noises until fiel/ignition is solved and engine runs. The tapping noise can easily be something like stuck valve lifter. In order to try to "unstuck" it, you usually need properly warm engine and oil pressure. Also, considering grime and rust on cam lobes, I would change oil & filter after first proper drive.

rufrob 07-29-2016 03:18 PM

You were right. The return line was plugged. I was surprised there was so much pressure in the line. It was plugged at the bottom of the tank unit. It cranks a lot better, no more locking. But still no start. How do I check the FPR? It's in such an awkward position. It's a PITA to remove.


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beepbeep 07-30-2016 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rufrob (Post 9219426)
You were right. The return line was plugged. I was surprised there was so much pressure in the line. It was plugged at the bottom of the tank unit. It cranks a lot better, no more locking. But still no start. How do I check the FPR? It's in such an awkward position. It's a PITA to remove.


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If your return line was blocked, you flooded the engine and your plugs are likely fouled. Before you go any further, I suggest following:

- pulling fuel pump fuse (so you do not dump even more fuel into engine)
- remove ignition plugs and dry-crank the engine to spit out all excess fuel from cylinders (and clean up the plugs themselves).

Once that is done, make sure you have spark. If yes, reinstall fuel pump fuse and try to start the engine again. (be advised that ECU must be able to measure head temperature in order to enable cold-start enrichment, so if coolant temperature sensor is for some reason not connected to ECU, make sure it is before you try to start it).

If you still have trouble starting the engine, you can proceed the troubleshooting by measuring the fuel pressure. You can basically measure fuel pressure anywhere between fuel pump and BTR. Usually, there is a tap on the fuel rail bade specifically for this. Otherwise, you can fit a T-hose on incoming fuel line and connect pressure gauge. Fuel pressure should be whatever pressure is in intake + 3 bar. Thus, if 0.5 bar of vacuum is present in intake during idle, fuel pressure should be 3 - 0.5 = 2.5 bar. At boost, it should proved 3 bar "above" boost pressure. Be advised that there is a thin rubber hose between intake and BTR. This hose must be leak-free for BTR to operate correctly.

If fuel pressure is still wrong, then either BTR is stuck (or ruptured) or air signal feed to BTR is leaking. BTR is nothing but a cup with spring-loaded valve, actuated by air pressure and bleeding off excess fuel into return line. I believe BTR is held in a rail by round clip. You just loosen the C-clip and pull out BTR from the rail "cup".


P.S.
It is slightly worrying that you experienced fuel "hydrolocking" when cranking the engine. There is a risk you bent a rod (yes, you can do it with starter only). Let's hope your valves were leaky enough not to let this happen. Also, oil level is probably a bit higher now with all fuel that went past the rings...

beepbeep 07-30-2016 03:13 AM

I believe this is FPR. Thin nipple is "pressure signal", side pipe should be fuel return to tank and bottom of FPR is "pressurized" side.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469877084.jpg

This seems to be some other kind of FPR than I am used to (Weber instead of Bosch), but it should work the same...

rufrob 07-30-2016 11:08 PM

Thank. Yes I know to pull the plugs and evacuate the combustion chambers. I'll see about swapping the FPR. Or cleaning with brake clean and wd40.


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rufrob 08-03-2016 11:09 PM

I spent an hour today on it. I pulled the FRP to find almost nothing in the return line. From the pump through the injectors and to the FPR was loads of fuel and pressure. I took the FPR off the old engine cleaned it and tested it with a hand vacuum pump, put some air through it and it opened. But put it on the car and same thing. After tapping on #2 injector it opened and is firing now. I pulled and cleaned the plugs, evacuated the combustion chambers and still same. Cranks, farts then hydrolocks. I am getting spark. The mechanic who helps me sometimes verified in a somewhat humorous why. I repaid him by helping him remove an AC compressor from a Lexus GS. Here they all came with the Supra Turbo engine.
I wonder why did it start and run before I changed the dizzy cap and rotor.
Why did I have plugged return line, now almost nothing in it. The FPR should let something through. I swear I will never touch an Italian car ever again.

beepbeep 08-04-2016 07:38 AM

You are probably flooding the engine due to injectors being forced open by stuck FPR and filling the cylinders with fuel. Other alternative is that ECU is fried and keeps injectors open 100%, thus dumping all fuel into cylinders.

Check if injectors are cycling when cranking. If yes, energize the fuel pump manually (without cranking the engine) and check whether you have 3 bar in the fuel rail (all excess fuel should be flooding back to return line if injectors are not opening)

There is nothing magic or "Italian" with this engine. The fuel system works on same principles as in any other American, German or Japanese car between mid 80's until entry of direct injected engines couple of years ago. Your problem seems to be that you are trying to revive car that has been sitting for long. Unfortunately, you do not follow general trouble shooting pattern but throwing things at the wall and see what sticks.

rufrob 08-04-2016 12:50 PM

I have revived long standing dormant cars from a 74-BMW 2002 turbo, 78-450 SL, 77-911
86-944 turbo, 89-944S2, 90-928, etc. I have never had as much trouble with this car. Even the mechanic is stumped. Timing, ignition, fuel all check. What I don't get is it ran before putting coolant and dizzy cap and rotor. I am really shocked at the material quality and design logic between this and the German equivalent.


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rtameris 08-04-2016 08:20 PM

I saw that video. He did not do a head gasket as I am.

rufrob 08-15-2016 09:54 PM

I double checked fuel pressure regulator, some fuel is passing through, strong spark, clean plugs, power at injectors. So the only thing else is reset the timing.


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rufrob 09-29-2016 01:18 PM

After taking a month off due to constant rain, I confirmed 3bar of fuel pressure I swapped the inhibition wires at the cap at the ***** started and idled smooth.
But still hard start with long cranking. I'll change the oils and button it up and run for my life.


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rufrob 09-30-2016 03:52 PM

https://vimeo.com/185089979
Now I got it running smoothly the problem now is the idle air control valve. Pulled it the car idles at 3000rpm. Unplug it when warm and it runs well. The next challenge is the flush and purge the cooling system. Seems there is a lot of air in there and I can't find the bleed screw.


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rufrob 10-09-2016 03:48 PM

Filled the ps reservoir to discover one hose split. That was fun replacing the hose. Found the coolant bleed hole on the top of the radiator. Now the radiator fan doesn't work.


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KNS 10-09-2016 05:06 PM

Thanks for the ongoing updates - I think we all want to see this Integrale back on the road.

1990C4S 10-10-2016 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KNS (Post 9312969)
Thanks for the ongoing updates - I think we all want to see this Integrale back on the road.

And out of your life. What you're doing would drive me crazy...

rufrob 10-12-2016 01:00 PM

Just a wee bit more. Found I connected the wrong connector for the rad fan. Who makes a rad fan coupler and headlight coupler the same size? So now the fan works but she boils over when I shut it down.


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rufrob 10-12-2016 01:02 PM

https://vimeo.com/187081187


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rufrob 10-27-2016 12:34 PM

Yesterday I finally got to the Lancia. Last 2 weeks I did a rear main seal on a Benz W210 E430 4 matic, easy. All 4 brake pads on a 2002 VW Golf, PITA without the rear caliper tool. I cleaned the idle air control valve, filled the transmission, attached the shifter cable then the clutch slave cylinder piston pops out and then no pressure. I hate this car


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rufrob 10-27-2016 12:34 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...fd292f083a.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...3be0d1f057.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...e48feb0f01.jpg


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rufrob 11-15-2016 12:13 PM

This car throws one issue after another. Now the master cylinder won't prime and I see the clutch release arm appears to be out of position. I did the engine. Clutch is their problem.


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