Thinking about a handgun - Page 3

Jeff Higgins · 11-01-2015, 12:58 PM

I would never recommend any sort of semi-auto for someone's first gun, especially someone with little experience. This thread immediately took the same path as all the rest of these threads - "look at my gun" rather than valid suggestions for a new shooter with little experience.

Garret, some oft the best advice for a man in your position came in the very first reply. This thread could have ended right there. Others have chimed in with the .38 Special / .357 magnum revolver - listen to them. Any quality, full size, steel framed .38/.357 revolver will be your best choice at this time. Save the autos for after you become completely familiar with, and at ease around handguns.

onewhippedpuppy · 11-01-2015, 03:03 PM

Steve, as much as I love shooting my 1911 there is nothing cheap about shooting .45 Auto.

To build on Jeff's message, I also went into my first gun shopping with a bias towards a semi-auto, maybe too many action movies? I ended up with a 1911 that I love and still own today, but it was a piss poor choice for a first handgun. I thought of revolvers as being old and antiquated before I traded a Sig P250 for a Colt Trooper and freaking loved it. They are incredibly effective, fun, and timeless quality. I have semi-autos but I LOVE my revolvers. Next for me is a smaller one, as both of mine are 6". Or maybe a .44.

Jeff Higgins · 11-01-2015, 04:14 PM

Yeah, it's funny, Matt - I keep hearing about how "antiquated" revolvers are to many people. My generation grew up with them, with semi-autos being seen as military or match pistols for the most part. Cops still carried revolvers, all of our mentors carried them, and they are what we all cut our shooting teeth on. But then again, I think I'm getting "antiquated".

I've lost count of how many younger shooters I have introduced to revolvers at my range. Many of them well and truly looked down their noses at them as "antiquated"; maybe fun at the range, but inaccurate, too slow to reload, too little capacity, etc. However, each and every one of them, so far without fail after shooting mine a bunch - has gone out and bought one. They all absolutely love them. They love the simplicity, reliability, accuracy, trigger pulls, and, with the older Smiths and Colts, the fit and finish and obvious care in their manufacture.

Everyone should have a nice revolver. Everyone should start with a nice revolver.

onewhippedpuppy · 11-01-2015, 04:52 PM

I had several semi-autos until I went plinking my father in law and a well worn S&W revolver in .38 SPL. Wasn't long until I had one for myself. I think my next one will be a Model 29.

Jeff Higgins · 11-01-2015, 05:08 PM

Good first gun, Model 19 .38/.357 in blue with a 4" barrel:

Great gun, but horrible first handgun - Model 29 in nickel with a 6" barrel:

The difference in size is tremendous. It doesn't really show as much as it should in photos, by M29's are huge revolvers:

I have to say that, because of its size and the size and shape of its grip, the M29 is far from my favorite platform for the .44 mag. While it is larger than other revolvers chambered in .44 mag, it's also not as strong. Continued use with heaver loads will eventually damage them. Granted, not an issue for many shooters, but I haven old Virginian Dragoon with well in excess of 10,000 full power rounds through it that is as tight and accurate as the day I bought it.

Various .44 mags:

The single actions are much easier to shoot, and punish less, with heavy loads. The M29 is what gave the .44 mag its (somewhat undeserved) reputation for nasty recoil. It's much better in single actions.

masraum · 11-01-2015, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Steve, as much as I love shooting my 1911 there is nothing cheap about shooting .45 Auto.

To build on Jeff's message, I also went into my first gun shopping with a bias towards a semi-auto, maybe too many action movies? I ended up with a 1911 that I love and still own today, but it was a piss poor choice for a first handgun. I thought of revolvers as being old and antiquated before I traded a Sig P250 for a Colt Trooper and freaking loved it. They are incredibly effective, fun, and timeless quality. I have semi-autos but I LOVE my revolvers. Next for me is a smaller one, as both of mine are 6". Or maybe a .44.

Come on, cheapest cartridges that you can buy (excluding rim fire) are in order 9mm, 40S&W, 45 ACP, 380, 38 spl, 357sig. I was surprised to find that 40S&W was so cheap. 9mm is the cheapest by far at about 20¢ a round. 40S&W is in the mid 20s, about 26¢/rd. Then 45 at around 29¢, 380 at around 29¢, 38spl at around 31¢ and it goes up from there.

I've got a 3" J frame and really don't like shooting it. I shot a buddies 357, not sure what, but older and I think it was a 6", maybe a model 19. I don't think it was a model 27/28. It was REALLY sweet to shoot.

I think a good revolver is good. I've really enjoyed my semi-autos whether striker fired or 1911. Yes, a semi-auto is more complicated and can be more finicky, but they don't seem that bad that I wouldn't recommend them to someone.

I think I would recommend a striker fired or DAO semi-auto before I'd recommend a 1911 or anything that was a single action semi-auto.

I really, REALLY want one of these

onewhippedpuppy · 11-01-2015, 05:32 PM

Jeff, that Model 29 is exactly what I want.

Steve, I typically find that .45 Auto is more like $.0.40-$0.50 each, but I don't buy the huge boxes either. I'm normally able to find .38 SPL for less, though it's not really very cheap either.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

S&W 686 Plus 4". 7 shots ftw.

masraum · 11-01-2015, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Great gun, but horrible first handgun - Model 29 in nickel with a 6" barrel:

I'm desperate for that gun in 357mag (which would make it a 27/28 instead of a 29). Now I just need the extra money. And since I've started thinking about getting one, the prices seem to have gone up.

Jeff Higgins · 11-01-2015, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

I'm desperate for that gun in 357mag (which would make it a 27/28 instead of a 29). Now I just need the extra money. And since I've started thinking about getting one, the prices seem to have gone up.

Those are great guns, Steve, but they are HUGE as far as .38/.357's go. N frame Smiths are simply big guns, no two ways about it. 27/28's are great plinker and fun guns, but pretty impractical to carry, even in the woods. Just too heavy.

That's what spawned the K frame 19's, as a matter of fact. Bill Jordan talked S&W into it, reasoning that it was better to carry a .38 all day long that could shoot a limited number of .357's in a pinch (like on duty), than it was to carry a full size .357 that you could practice with with .38's in it.

I love my M19 and feed it as intended. My daily plinking load is the RCBS .38-150 SWC over 5.0 grains of 231 for about 900 fps. Easy on the gun, easy on the shooter. When I'm carrying it, it gets the same bullet over either 14.5 grains of 2400 or 16 grains of 296 for just about 1,300 fps. It changes the character of the gun entirely. It's also rather obvious the poor little thing isn't going to put up with much of that. While the 27/28 would, you still don't want to yourself.

So, if you want something to carry, I would highly recommend the smaller K frames over the N frames. If it's just going to be a plinker and/or nightstand gun, then you can't go wrong with the bigger N frame. It's all about how you are going to use it.

masraum · 11-01-2015, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Those are great guns, Steve, but they are HUGE as far as .38/.357's go. N frame Smiths are simply big guns, no two ways about it. 27/28's are great plinker and fun guns, but pretty impractical to carry, even in the woods. Just too heavy.

The main reason that I want it due to sentimental reasons, and (I'm sure due to the sentimental reasons) it's what I picture when I think of the quintessential revolver. I would absolutely want to shoot it, but it would just be fun at the range occasionally.

HardDrive · 11-01-2015, 06:10 PM

I disagree somewhat about getting a revolver first. Why? It like recommending that a person get a 250cc motorcycle as their first bike. I'm not dissing revolvers (I own 3 of them), but I find magazine fed pistols to be more fun at the range, and I'm not buying your arguments about .38 being the same cost at 9mm. No way.

If we were talking about carry guns, I can see a clear advantage for revolvers in the reliability department, but were not. Full frame semi's are very reliable. I honestly don't recall my Sig 226 jamming once after the first 2 weeks I had it, and I've owned it for 10 years. Bone simple to strip and clean.

Jeff Higgins · 11-01-2015, 06:43 PM

Yes, modern semi automatics are extremely reliable. Even my Kimber Ultra Carry, one of the smallest 1911's made, has never failed in any way. Reliability of the firearm, however, is not the issue.

To me, the biggest issue is the complexity of the "user interface", to use a modern term. Revolvers are dead simple. Even the most basic and simple of autos are more complicated to load and get into action, then to unload and reload. At the range, granted, who cares? In a very high stress situation, we have seen it makes a difference even for trained professionals, much less new, inexperienced gun owners.

I will also go as far as to tout the "esoteric" side of the equation. Revolver shooting gets one much more "involved" in the process. It makes one slow down and put a greater effort into making every shot count. There are fewer of them in the gun, and it's more work to unload and reload for the next gun full. I believe revolvers get one more "in touch" with the mechanics of it all, and get one to play closer attention. I see this difference in revolver vs. auto shooters every time I am at my range. The revolver guys are much more deliberate about what they are doing. That, of course, may be somewhat of a "chicken or the egg" kind of a question, but I certainly do see it.

RF5BPilot · 06:34 AM

I've tried to resist posting.....as opinions are cheap & rampant.

Rather than thinking of what's right for a first gun, consider what you want to do with it.

If -- you think you're picking up a semi-hobby and that after your initial training that you and your wife will regularly go to a range for fun (and thus, stay current on a gun that is cleaned regularly) -- then a semi-auto of your choice makes sense. Lots out there. Hard to go wrong with a Glock or SigSauer (even consider a KelTek .32 for defense). The 1911 pistols are great but they can be laborious to clean compared to the more modern designs.

But -- find something that fits your hand(s), that isn't too expensive to shoot, and that has a smooth enough action that you can shoot it accurately. I can't tell you how many times I'm next to some Testosterone Showoff with a large caliber gun who can't shoot *****. I'll take 1-2 carefully placed shots over 10 wild shots any day. Protection (and importantly, under the law) means that you are trying to stop the person, not kill them. These concepts overlap--but are genuinely distinct.

If---you mainly want it for protection. You'll take the class and somewhat rarely go to a range to practice a bit, but (honestly) most of the time it will sit in a small safe or case -- then a something like a .38 revolver makes a lot of sense (or the public defender revolver that can shoot .410 shotgun shells). It will still fire without regular cleaning. It's simpler. It's reasonably priced. You're paying for simple functionality, not bragging rights.

See what feels right after your training course. But recognize that a number of strategically placed defensive spray cans can be put around the house near doorways so they're easy to grab. The times when you could actually get to a gun and use it legally are relatively slim.

Jim Bremner · 11-02-2015, 06:41 AM

If you think an antique 1911 is hard to field strip and clean try a Smith & Wesson MP Shield. Stupid design to clean

masraum · 11-02-2015, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RF5BPilot

Protection (and importantly, under the law) means that you are trying to stop the person, not kill them.

hmmm.

Quote:

But recognize that a number of strategically placed defensive spray cans can be put around the house near doorways so they're easy to grab. The times when you could actually get to a gun and use it legally are relatively slim.

I hear a really loud horn is also great protection.

flipper35 · flipper35's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Those are great guns, Steve, but they are HUGE as far as .38/.357's go. N frame Smiths are simply big guns, no two ways about it. 27/28's are great plinker and fun guns, but pretty impractical to carry, even in the woods. Just too heavy.

That's what spawned the K frame 19's, as a matter of fact. Bill Jordan talked S&W into it, reasoning that it was better to carry a .38 all day long that could shoot a limited number of .357's in a pinch (like on duty), than it was to carry a full size .357 that you could practice with with .38's in it.

I love my M19 and feed it as intended. My daily plinking load is the RCBS .38-150 SWC over 5.0 grains of 231 for about 900 fps. Easy on the gun, easy on the shooter. When I'm carrying it, it gets the same bullet over either 14.5 grains of 2400 or 16 grains of 296 for just about 1,300 fps. It changes the character of the gun entirely. It's also rather obvious the poor little thing isn't going to put up with much of that. While the 27/28 would, you still don't want to yourself.

So, if you want something to carry, I would highly recommend the smaller K frames over the N frames. If it's just going to be a plinker and/or nightstand gun, then you can't go wrong with the bigger N frame. It's all about how you are going to use it.

I carry a 6" 28-2 in the woods all the time. Don't really notice it is there to tell the truth other than when it hits something, especially in the briar patch.

vash · vash's Garage

pretty funny. gun choice threads are the infinite time waster. EVERYONE loves what they themselves own. it is the only universal agreement. if anything, it's a great op to post up kid pictures of their own guns..even after mentioning it..jeff rolls out the vacation photo essay of guns.

nobody mentioned SigSauer yet?

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by gprsh924

Thanks for the advice so far. Some of the classes I have found offer range time with both revolvers and semi-auto, so that should help me decide what I like best. Solely on form, I would lean towards a semi-auto.

Also you live in Lincoln park, NJ? If so, the range I am a member of is a couple of towns over in Woodland Park. I'd like to invite you to the range ash guest. You can shoot various guns including mine as well as an assortment of rentals (revolvers, semi-autos, and long guns) offered at the range. We'll shoot whatever you feel you are most comfortable with, including .32 acp caliber, .380 acp, and 9mm. We can shoot .22 as well if you want.

I can go over the gun permit application process and pitfalls with you as well.

Ping me on Private messages here and we can set up something as soon as you want.

-Z

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I have a blued Model 629 that is a work of art. It gets a lot of attention at the range, especially when I light off 180 gr. rounds. But it's not a beginner's gun and it's too nice to use anywhere but in nice weather or a covered range.