So, about those new skis - advice ?

[Deschodt]

Just returned from my first snow trip since moving out of FL. (Tahoe, nice snow)
I had not skied in 15 years, those new funny shaped skis were new to me, and I must confess that the first couple of turns right off the lift were a bit of a leap of faith ;-) As it turns out, it IS like riding a bike (I skied a lot before that big gap), and after a couple of blue runs to warm up and play it safe (I'm older), I went straight back to black runs and did OK. Phew...

Now, I'd been told by you guys those new skis were easier etc... I agree, they turn easier and certainly eased my return to the slopes. But I'm not a fan yet. Seems that my style of skiing was better suited to my longer older Dynastar Course GS (more giant slalom than quick turns, I like speed and long lazy high speed turns on fresh compacted snow, with only just enough turns to prevent me from going *too* fast). Those new skis turn on a dime, but seem nervous and unstable on sustained high speed turns... I rented stuff to help me decide, tried 2 kinds on different days (Elan and Volkl), asked for advanced level equipment, yet both looked small to me as sized by the attendant (just higher than the chin) and both felt more or less the same. Easy for quick turns, not super confidence-inducing at higher speeds... I'm not generalizing, maybe they are crap rentals ? I don't do much powder, not too many moguls either (too old)... What would you recommend in the new stuff for high speed/stability and giant slalom style skiing? I've been told (after I returned my equipment) to go +1 next time on length. Not sure if that'll be enough.... I'd like to buy something soon and avoid the rental lines next time !

[Moses]

I am you. Exactly....

You WILL find new, parabolic shaped skis that work for you. Mine are Blizzards, but many will work.

Demo skis until you find a stiff pair that don't chatter at high speeds on packed snow when going straight. That's how I found mine.

[304065]

The shaped ski form is well suited to stability on sustained high speed turns.



As the good doctor says, keep trying. You don't need skis from the World Cup room to experience the benefits of better turn initation and the ability to carve much more easily than if you were trying to bend a straight ski into a radius. Add in some tip rocker for even faster turn initiation and it gets even better.

Check out Head and Atomic and Rossi in that order.

[Nordwest]

Try Rosignol E-88's or E-100's. Both are carvers. I have both and like em alot.

[Mark Henry]

The new skis are an adjustment from the old, you should take a few refresher lessons.
Old ski's were more like oversized Ice skates, hard turns on the edges, instead of gently S carving. It's hard to break that habit until you are shown what you are doing wrong.
Once you do see it, correction comes quickly.

With new skis look at the alpine snow boarders, how they turn you see a lot of the bottom of the board. The new skis are same, the more weight you put on the turning edge (and lift of the downhill side), the more bottom of the ski one would "see", the more the ski turns itself. Not a hard skating turn, but a gential rocking the lets the ski work (carve) themselves.
Look at how the ski's are in the above pic, you obviously don't want to go as extreme and you don't want to crouch like a racer, but you want to see the bottom of the ski along those lines.
BTW This is what the info on your ski's mean regarding "turn radius", when carving proper it's how much (radius) the ski will turn itself.

The next point and this has a lot to do with the speed issue you are having, is leaning properly over the skis. Many old school skiers tend to lean too far back on the ski's. For this your first 2-3 runs of the day hold both poles horizontally with both arms outstretched straight in front of you and bend your knee's.
This will force you to lean forward and you will start to see a difference in your carving almost immediately. Later in the day, if you start to notice you are leaning back too far again, just repeat above for a couple runs.
I consider myself quite an advanced skier and I still do this every outing.

Both these points go hand in hand, the more you begin to lean forward the faster you go, the faster you go the more precise your carving will become. In turn your carving is what will control your speed.

Last point is to make sure the skis are the correct type for your skill level and the type of skiing you are doing.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

The new skis are an adjustment from the old, you should take a few refresher lessons.

thanks for the replies so far !
That's an option for next time. And I made a conscious effort to not "sit back" too much, but admittedly I've been skiing one way for 25yrs, changing my style at this point might be harder (and maybe not as effective) vs just finding a better matching ski for me. I'm not after perfection at this point, just recapturing a better feel on high speed turn (kinda like 911 vs Cayman) .

I will try a lesson next time just to see if I'm doing something obviously wrong. But it felt good, I think it's just a degree of preference. I don't hate the new tech ( I think it made my life easier) I simply would prefer trading some of the quick turn response for more high speed stability. It's possible longer skis might be all I need...

I was hoping to avoid much more "testing" and rental lines, guess there's no free lunch ;-) Long shot - if someone remembers the old Dynastar Course GS I mentioned, maybe you could save me time by pointing out something similar in feel? Will check out blizzard/head/atomic but I'm sure there's a gazillion models..

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

thanks for the replies so far !
I simply would prefer trading some of the quick turn response for more high speed stability. It's possible longer skis might be all I need...

High speed issues are definitely from leaning too far back.
Do my pole trick, learn to lean forward correctly and you will see a vast improvement.

[SilberUrS6]

After learning on straight planks with ski straps (yeah, the really old days), I love the new skis. The old skis were hard work, and screw-ups were often costly to my body. Making turns is so much easier now, and the hardest part has been unlearning how to use the old skis. Retraining muscle memory is hard, but worth it.

[9dreizig]

Here's the basic differences:
New skis don't need to be bent to turn ,, hence no forward stiff boots needed.
keep your weight balanced,, now turn using weight shift from outside little toe to big toe..
New skis are inherently unstable unless you're on an edge.. so no more flat ski cruising
Fat skis allow for floating over the crude, MUCH easier than old skinny skis.
I agree with finding a stiff ski, not easy with the new designs many are noodles ..

[CurtEgerer]

I would consider buying a '1st generation' shaped ski - that would be late 90s/early 2000s. NOS stuff pops up on fleaBay all the time. Those skis were not nearly as radical a jump from straight skis as what is in the shops today. Something like these K2 Fours would be perfect (although unless you're very tall/heavy you would want 188 or even 178, not these 198s!). These skis were revolutionary at the time and they will be for you now after a long layoff. You may have no need or desire to buy anything beyond those. I still love skiing on the 1st generation stuff, although I've got newer skis too.

eBay K2 Four 198cm

Also, Mark's pole trick is good advice. We used that same basic exercise many decades ago when I was instructing.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Here's the basic differences:
New skis don't need to be bent to turn ,, hence no forward stiff boots needed.

No, you really should have your knees bent.
If you buy boots at a pro shop they ask you your skill level, if you say advanced or expert you will receive a much stiffer boot.

keep your weight balanced,, now turn using weight shift from outside little toe to big toe..

Hard to balance you weight if your knees are not bent.

New skis are inherently unstable unless you're on an edge.. so no more flat ski cruising

Are your skis floating, sort of like fishtailing on both the tip and tail of the ski?
You are not bending your knees and are leaning back too far.

Fat skis allow for floating over the crude, MUCH easier than old skinny skis.

I agree with finding a stiff ski, not easy with the new designs many are noodles ..

This is part of choosing the correct ski for the type of skiing and your skill level.
The "noodles" are because when on the edge it makes a tighter turn radius.

I use two pair of skis on groomed trails, I'm one of those posers going like 90mph down the blacks diamonds, carving like a mad man all the way.
I'm 6'1", my go to ski is my 163cm (5'-3 1/2") Head icon TT so that's a looser ski, tight radius and a total carver.
But I'm getting older, I don't do moguls anymore and can only handle the constant carving for a half day.
Then I will change to my Elan 176cm (5'-7 1/2"), which are bit stiffer and wider, for a break. On those I can do a full tuck on a 50* hill, great for getting from lift to lift without walking.

[9dreizig]

Mark brings up some good points.. are you primarily an east coast skier or a west coast skier ?
I didn't mean to imply that you don't bend your knees,, you certainly still need to do that, ,however you don't need to bend the ski to turn it , hence you don't need a stiff boot anymore.
I will disagree with him however on the noodles.. If you're not skiing steep hardback maybe you can get away with some of the west coast ski's that they sell out here, but trust me I've demo'd a lot of the newer ski's and they are just not made for high speed high pack, they will chatter.. but my experience is only with 189-198 cm 's ( I still like them long)

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Mark brings up some good points.. are you primarily an east coast skier or a west coast skier ?
I didn't mean to imply that you don't bend your knees,, you certainly still need to do that, ,however you don't need to bend the ski to turn it , hence you don't need a stiff boot anymore.
I will disagree with him however on the noodles..

This East/West coast stuff is getting technical. I learned to ski in the Alps at age 3 and skied there every winter for 20 years. I can ski anything anywhere but I would not call myself expert by a long shot, just a decent all around skier in his early 40s... I enjoy giant slalom style skiing the most, high speed and long wide fast turns on freshly packed "corduroy" - I think you call it... I'm now too old to spend my day showing off turning right/left every other second (not sure how you call that here) unless it's very steep and I *have* to ;-) My moguls, jumps and powder days are done (tired knees, never liked powder anyway, I know, crazy huh?)...

I ski Tahoe and did not ski for the past 15 yrs!!! I got left behind. I do bend my knees but I know I tend to sit back a little too much overall. I will take Mark Henry's advice to heart (promised) as much as my boots let me, but if I'm honest, I think the odds of me changing my technique after all that time are lower than me just finding a slightly more comfy ski - I'm doing fine with the new stuff, I just wanted a more stable ski at high speed vs. what I rented. The new stuff I was given seems like it was too short (160'ish I'm guessing from memory) and skiing fast and doing high speed turns on compacted stuff, the skis felt like they were chattering a lot and moving around both F/R. Then again I'm not a black box and I was rusty... I did not experience that solid turn feel I was used to... That's all....I don't need to go nuts, sounds like one or 2 year old modern parabolic skis designed for carving on corduroy, and probably 185cm or so would make me happy.... My old skis were 205s, so 185s or so with a modern profile sounds like easier turns and probably the extra stability I'm used to. That and I'll practice Mark's exercise... ? am I off base ?

[9dreizig]

Next time you ski Tahoe give me a shout!!! I have a pass at Mt Rose but still ski Kirkwood and a few other places around the lake !

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

High speed issues are definitely from leaning too far back.
Do my pole trick, learn to lean forward correctly and you will see a vast improvement.

I don't think that any fore/aft leaning should come to mind. Imagine that you're skiing in slippers rather than boots and on 2' long skis - stay centered. There's little thought of pressuring various parts of the ski to initiate and complete turns anymore. Some do drills skiing with fully loose boots to learn the body feeling.

Also, it's a two-footed turn. You have two feet and two legs (most likely) - use them. To counter old habits try to put more pressure (like 75%) on your inside ski. A good drill is to use only the inside ski on each turn, like actually lift the outside ski. Back on a '90s college ski team we'd leave a ski at the bottom and do a lap on one leg. Good fitness drill, too!

Or take a lesson (seriously it's worth it)

[billybek]

My old cruising skis were Volkl Targa Rs from way back in the day. Full on slalom ski and even at 203 or 205 cm I would still ski bumps on them all day long and man they were a lot of work.
I like not working so hard these days and I am on some Rossignol Z5s from a few years back. They are only 170-175 cm and do exactly what I want them to do. Turn.
Maybe look at some new boards next year as it is amazing the leaps and bounds that technology makes with these new skis.
Skiing is fun again on these things and easier on the body.
Sounds like you may need a ski that is a little more aggressive and perhaps the skis you tried were detuned a bit.
Look at the ski manufacturers websites to see if they are doing demo days at a location close to you and try everything they will let you try. It might surprise you what you actually like...

[stealthn]

Timely thread I was just talking about it over Christmas. Sorry I'm old school and love my old 205 race ski's (I did give up my 215's ) Last year I got new boots which I really needed and the ski store owner and I talked about the new skis, I told him I love my skis and don't really want to go to the new skis, he was adamant I "needed to" get new skis as the tech was so much better. We went back and forth neither going to be convinced, it was funny.

I say do want you want, I will still fly past people in a tuck on their squid skis, pound the mogels on double black diamonds, and drop in to shoots to test my guts

Each to their own and have fun.

[unclebilly]

If you want to ski old school, go to a Salvation Army, garage sale, or flea market and pick up some old school skis, unless skiing is more of a fashion show for you and you need to have some bling.

If you want the bling, upgrade your style. If you want to kick it old school, get the retro gear.

Nothing wrong with either choice, I don't care what you have strapped to your boots. I just upgraded (modernized) my 15 year old K2 shaped skis this year and am pretty much used to the new skis after 3 times out.

[RKC]

For "high speed turns on compacted snow" the new term seems to be "frontside" or "groomer" skis. They are narrower waisted than the current all-around/allterrain and powder skis, and closer to the old carving/racing skis of the 1970's & 1980's (with thicker/wider tips and tails).

I had the same issues when I first rented shaped skis - they chattered and were very nervous and kind of unsettling especially on the flats (coming from K2 812 (205) and Dynastar Course SL (200), which sound like the same era as your Dynastars.

Frontside skis aren't so easy to find even in good shops or at a resort, but you can find them on the internet and get a local shop to adjust them. Mine are still longish - 185 Volkls from a few seasons ago - and I'm only 5'10". A good front side ski should carve well, track well and be stable at speed, and slice ice like an old GS ski.

There ARE new skis that are stable and carve well, but these things go in a cycle, and ski cross and parks are today's popular thing (no Mahre brothers). I'm too old to learn too many new tricks (tried a rail at 50 years old, fell on my face twice (my teenagers laughing), and decided to go back to Bushwacker & Plunge at Telluride - steep, knee-happy (and face happy) groomers into town.

They still make pure SL and GS race skis too, but I don't have a good grasp of those these days.

[Tidybuoy]

I've been going on an annual ski trip to Aspen Colorado for over 25 years. A few years ago, my binding broke and I was not able to get it repaired (my skis had built-in bindings so you can't just replace them).

I ended up renting skis for the 9-day trip and I have decided that I will rent for the rest of my life. I had the best skiing of my life skiing on the latest and greatest shaped skis. I was very surprised when the ski shop recommended 150's since I usually skied on 180-190 skis but the guy was very knowledgeable and talked me into the 150's. They were extremely fat Dynastars. Bottom line, these were fantastic skis and were every bit as fast as my old 180's. The big difference is I could stop on a dime and take any level of turns at great speed. On my 9th day of the trip I got "cautioned" by ski patrol after the guy chased me down the hill (I didn't even know he was chasing me - Naturally, I won ).