A Message to Our Customers - Apple

[sc_rufctr]

Think about it.

If you were a terrorist and you were about to murder a bunch of people wouldn't you clear and erase your phone? Or better still wouldn't you destroy your phone and carry a "Burner" phone?

I know what I would do so why unlock this phone? I doubt they'd get anything useful off it anyway.

[jyl]

Forbes Welcome

I'm thinking eventually security features will have to be hard-coded into silicon - not firmware, not software, but into the actual circuits of the chip itself. Probably into the CPU, because a separate security processor could be spoofed.

[berettafan]

the humor in this is barry o' desperately wishes he could pull off a turtleneck.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Think about it.

If you were a terrorist and you were about to murder a bunch of people wouldn't you clear and erase your phone? Or better still wouldn't you destroy your phone and carry a "Burner" phone?

I know what I would do so why unlock this phone? I doubt they'd get anything useful off it anyway.

I think this is about establishing a precedent, getting the camel's nose under the tent, not about trying to investigate this particular attack.

What the government could do, if Apple wins this legal battle, is to take down Apple's CEO. Investigate his personal life, his business history, his taxes, his decisions at Apple, everything. Find something that makes him a liability to the company and get him ousted. Then lean on the next CEO to be more cooperative.

After all, most Apple shareholders couldn't care less about privacy, they just want the stock to go up.

[Hugh R]

If Apple created that unlock software, it will be out there available to the highest bidder. Who is to say an Apple software engineer can't be bought by China for $Billion?

[flatbutt]

Do we really believe that Apple is currently unable to download that phones contents?

I do not. I think Apple can and does not want to reveal that information.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Think about it.

If you were a terrorist and you were about to murder a bunch of people wouldn't you clear and erase your phone? Or better still wouldn't you destroy your phone and carry a "Burner" phone?

I know what I would do so why unlock this phone? I doubt they'd get anything useful off it anyway.

They had personal cells that they destroyed beyond the ability to retrieve anything.

They removed and disposed of the hard drives in their PC's. The FEDs still have not found them.

This specific phone was employer issued. Everyone knows that an employer issued device is subject to monitoring.

The likelihood that the employer issued device was used in any planning is low and if it in fact was the likelihood that any incriminating data was deleted is high.

This is not about the phone, it's a stick being used to beat tech companies into compliance.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

Do we really believe that Apple is currently unable to download that phones contents?

I do not. I think Apple can and does not want to reveal that information.

That question needs to be asked differently.

Of course they can, anyone could do it, but the data would not be in a useable format.

Can they currently download that data in a useable format?

No, I do not believe they currently can.

But, they can make it happen, if they wanted to.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

That will never happen, Baz. Once it's done neither party will let it go. Even if the special "software" is destroyed, the knowledge and process to replicate it is there. As much as I think it important to know what is on that phone, I think almost all of us can recognize whatever data the government acquires will eventually be compromised.

As I said before............I'm certainly no expert on what is involved in getting the info out of the phone in a covert manner.

But an argument could be made - we don't have the missile launch codes for our nuclear missiles - do we?

Why is this different?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by legion

It is my understanding that Apple is not being asked to break the encryption, but rather to disable the feature that wipes the phone after X number of bad password guesses

Wait - so if my brat grandsons get ahold of my phone and start playing with the password screen they can wipe out my entire phone?
That's a great product feature.
Is the phone completely useless to anyone then?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Wait - so if my brat grandsons get ahold of my phone and start playing with the password screen they can wipe out my entire phone?
That's a great product feature.
Is the phone completely useless to anyone then?

You have to enable the feature, it's not on by default.

After 5 failed attempts you have to wait a minute.

With each subsequent failed attempt the time interval increases before you are allowed to try again.

After failed attempt 8 the interval is 1 hour.

Someone would have to have your phone for 2.5 hours.

The phone is completely wiped.

FWIW, if you regularly back up your device this should only be an inconvenience.

A pain in the ass one but that's about it.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

This is not about the phone, it's a stick being used to beat tech companies into compliance.

This ^ - Apple's encryption has been a problem for law enforcement, and this incident is being used as a lever to twist Apple's arm.

[Mark Henry]

Just sign zee papers old man....

[aschen]

Im not really an apple guy as I am uh "value shopper". However I agree with their philosophy here and its pretty impressive that the fbi cant break their security system.


I bet they love getting all this related press. They should come back with: "we cant do it, its that secure"

[Chocaholic]

Apple could have simply complied quietly, under NDA and resolved this without it ever seeing the light of day.

Instead, they chose to pursue misguided publicity. Apple is to blame for making this a public issue and giving it the visibility they claim they do not want.

If Apple loses, any repercussions are on their hands.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Apple could have simply complied quietly, under NDA and resolved this without it ever seeing the light of day.

Instead, they chose to pursue misguided publicity. Apple is to blame for making this a public issue and giving it the visibility they claim they do not want.

If Apple loses, any repercussions are on their hands.

It's not at all what you think it's about.

[jyl]

I think (surmise) that Apple has two motivations.

First, if consumers hear that iPhones are not secure then they'll use them less. Not that most consumers plan to become FBI most wanted or worry that their phones will fall into the hands of the Chinese govt, but if iPhones start getting regularly cracked that will hurt its reputation for security. And consumers might keep using their iPhones for surfing Pelican, but maybe not for Apple Pay, shopping, and other stuff that Apple hopes will drive demand for new iPhones.

Second, Apple does seem to have some genuine views on what's right and wrong. Which, as I pointed out, could be related to its CEO.

Anyone think that hardcoding security features like password delays in silicon would block this sort of exploit (the government ordering Apple to hack its own products)?

By the way, backdoors are being found in other tech products, most recently in firewalls, routers and switches used in data centers and telcos. How did they get there - did Juniper agree to insert them or did the government pay a Juniper engineer a lot of money? Who knows but it is being done.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Apple could have simply complied quietly, under NDA and resolved this without it ever seeing the light of day.

Instead, they chose to pursue misguided publicity. Apple is to blame for making this a public issue and giving it the visibility they claim they do not want.

If Apple loses, any repercussions are on their hands.

Big government colluding secretively with big business -what could go wrong?

[stealthn]

I'm with Apple on this...

[stomachmonkey]

From the other thread for those not following both.

China Passes Law to Require Encryption Keys from Tech Companies, Cites American Precedent - Breitbart