The airbag thing... from another perspective

[Heel n Toe]

There's a lot of news constantly about airbags in newer cars exploding and injuring people.

What about airbags in older cars? Are any of you familiar with total airbag failure in crashes in older cars?

Just curious... for instance, my wife's '94 Camry is trucking right along at over 120K miles... mechanicals have been well taken care of, brakes and front suspension recently gone over and one axle replaced because the boot had failed...

...but there's lots left to be desired on the other systems like power windows... some have failed... and the heat and A/C still work, but the ducting flaps are not completely functional, so the inside of the windshield is where most of the air is channelled.

So what about the airbags in a car that old? Is one supposed to just trust that if there's not a warning light, everything is okay?

We're planning to replace the car in a year or so... just wondering re: airbags.

[sand_man]

I think this is a valid concern. My '95 993 is equiped with airbags. I removed the driver side when I replaced the factory steering wheel with the Momo Mod7 wheel. But I still worry about what's lurking under the passenger side dash. Seatbelts are something else I'm planning to replace.

[Holger]

I have never heard of airbags exploding without a cause.
Sounds to me like a typical US-problem, giving the lawyers work.

[osidak]

The first car in my family that we owned with an airbag was a 1986 W124 300E - I remember there was a decal on the inside of the glove box door that read to the effect the airbag had to be replaced after 5 or 10 years. I remember at some point we received anther decal that amended that to a later date.

The car was involved in a heavy front end accident and the airbag did not go off (if I remember correctly it was just the steering wheel)

[onewhippedpuppy]

Early airbags can be dangerous, I know a few people who have been in accidents and the airbags hurt them far more than the accident. They are very basic, I'm thinking the non-airbag Momo wheel is the way to go.

[wayner]

I was just thinking about this last night.

I drive a motorcycle. It has no air bags.
I wore a helmet before helmet laws came in.
Now that there are helmet laws, I still wear a lid, but I also wear leather gloves and jacket for added protection.

Meanwhile, I am legally not allowed to wear more protection in my car. No helmet when driving on the street, and the insurance companies don;t like roll bars (probably because I am not allowed to wear a helmet). Similarly racing harnesses are not allowed.

BUT, I can drive a car with an explosive device ready to go off in my face

[dad911]

Back in the day, 944 airbags could go off during heavy braking at the track. Happened to a few friends of mine, and a student while I was instructing.

[red-beard]

The older airbags will not suffer the issue with the Takata airbags. They use Sodium Azide as the "propellent" not Ammonium Nitrate.

As far as "Will they Operate?", I don't know. But potentially a valid concern. They won't "go off" like old dynamite. But they may fail to operate.

[flipper35]

The old ones could be overpowered since they were designed to protect the occupant that was NOT wearing a seatbelt. Stupid law in my opinion.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Holger

I have never heard of airbags exploding without a cause.
Sounds to me like a typical US-problem, giving the lawyers work.

Takata airbags get moisture in them and they deploy without cause. There are so many that Takata likely will not recover from the recall and replacement of all of them.

[sand_man]

Not to derail the OPs thread, but I think Rennline makes a replacement front passenger dash cover (for race cars) that will replace the 993 airbag in that spot, then I'd have none. In all honesty, I have owned way more cars without airbags, than with. I'm not implying they were more safe in any way. I'm just nervous about being around a passive (or not so passive) explosive device that is 21 years old!

[Cooper911SC]

Sadly, I can chime in here. In Dec. of 2014 my wife hydroplaned in our '95 993. 230,000 mile car, has been well maintained.

Both airbags deployed as intended. She walked away.

Full story: Traveling EB on CA22 around 9:30pm. Light rain falling sporadically, ground was wet.

She was traveling at 60mph in the right lane. (Many typical CA drivers flying past at 80mph)

Just about at City Drive exit the car hydroplaned to the left crossing almost 2 lanes. She steered back to the right and the car started to rotate.
Sliding back across into concrete K rail on right shoulder left front corner of the car first.

Finished rotating and then slid backwards along the K rail into a section of Armco bolted to it.

993 chassis is twisted enough that the backlight shattered and the sunroof sticks up about 1/8" out of roof at leading edge.

She is a short petite lady, sits close to the steering wheel.
When she called me to tell me about the wreck one of the first things I asked her was if her face was ok from the airbag. She had light roseace on one cheek and the sleeve on her rain coat was burned. Otherwise ok.

I have talked to friends and others over the years who have suffered broken noses, black eyes, and burns from airbags deploying. (Obviously beats some other alternatives)...

The 993 did its job very well. Sad to see it written off this way, but WAY MORE IMPORTANT TO HAVE MY WIFE!

We replaced the 993 with another '95 within a year.

And YES the space saver spare does function as part of the front crash structure! Glad to post pics of our "out of round" unit.

Amazingly no other vehicles were involved in the accident!

Cooper

[sand_man]

Sorry for your loss (the 993), Cooper! But at the end of the day, stuff is just stuff, so glad your wife walked away! Thanks for sharing your experience.

[bivenator]

A Takata airbag was blamed on the death of a 17 y/o here in Houston last week. She was in a collision in which she was rear ended. The airbag deployed and the metal casing around the bag became airborne. It cut her neck and she passed. Sad way to lose a loved one. If you have a Takata under recall then get it replaced.

[Cooper911SC]

Originally Posted by sand_man

Sorry for your loss (the 993), Cooper! But at the end of the day, stuff is just stuff, so glad your wife walked away! Thanks for sharing your experience.

Absolutely SO true. She was apologetic for weeks afterward about the car and not being able to "gather it back up". She's done driver control clinics and over a year of Auto X.

I told her unequivocally NOT your fault I don't care at all about the car. Replaceable!!

Mario Andretti probably couldn't have controlled it...

Life happens...

[impactbumper]

Airbags have expiration dates. They need to be replaced but noone does it due to cost. Noone even brings it out.

[cairns]

You can disable the airbags in the 993 by disconnecting them (disconnect the battery first!). Then just remove the annoying light. If you have a newer Porsche you need the SW to do this. I used Durametric and it was a snap.

Of course I would never disconnect them without using a six point harness and racing seat/helmet etc. in their place.....

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by cairns

You can disable the airbags in the 993 by disconnecting them (disconnect the battery first!). Then just remove the annoying light. If you have a newer Porsche you need the SW to do this. I used Durametric and it was a snap.

Of course I would never disconnect them without using a six point harness and racing seat/helmet etc. in their place.....

Not to make this a 993 specific thread, but when I installed my Momo wheel, I used a metal film resistor within the disconnected airbag wiring harness to "trick" the system into thinking the airbag was still present...thus no error lights.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by wayner

BUT, I can drive a car with an explosive device ready to go off in my face

And... if you defeat said airbag in your car and crash, you might no longer be covered by your insurance (or be in a fight with them either way). Or if you sell a car that came with airbags (as old as those, which may or may not work) but defeated them, and the new owner gets hurt, (insert possibilities here).... etc

This was pointed out to me by the dealer when I had to shell out $1500 to fix an airbag sensor mat on a Mini I wanted to sell. You can easily defeat the activation, but good luck in court.... Thankfully a recall fixed me for free...

No wonder my rides are now all either newish (covered) or pre-airbags ! More and more this planned obsolence is catching up with us... It's not just airbags (not to hijack this thread) but some new computer modules cannot be coded to the car by independents anymore... Save your oldies !!!

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Holger

I have never heard of airbags exploding without a cause.
Sounds to me like a typical US-problem, giving the lawyers work.

The Takata Airbag Recall is World Wide.