The joys of plane ownership

[recycled sixtie]

There are many good points mentioned above. DM I think your average running costs should come down each year.In theory anyway!
Kind of like a Porsche air cooled where you are replacing and upgrading parts. The value of your plane is increasing because of it and apparently you don't lose when selling an aircraft(that is the theory anyway unless the engine needs a major overhaul).

In addition if you rented an aircraft of this calibre I am sure it would be pretty expensive(if you could find one like this). If you downgraded and rented a C172 it would be 50 mph slower and considerably cheaper.

To me that is the major problem with private ownership is that the aircraft is not used enough. Then you have shared ownership with its associated headaches of inconvenience and possible arguments with the joint owners.

To me it all boils down to $$$. Would you rather spend the $$ on something else?
Now you have owned an aircraft like this I would think it would be very hard to give it up. Great looking aircraft.
Guy

[GH85Carrera]

Our company has a 1965 Cessna 206 that the company bought in 1969. It is just our work pickup truck. Our chief pilot is very meticulous, and keeps a great log book. He often flies 40 hours a week so his butt is real familiar with that airplane after almost 20 years of flying it. We have a mechanic on retainer and we are the top fuel buyer at a local airport where we keep it hangared. It is not a pretty airplane, but we know it is very solid. It is just insane how expensive it is to fly a small aircraft. Our chief pilot just loves flying and airplanes. He bought a 1946 140 as a second toy to go along with his C210T personal aircraft.

[vonsmog]

My buddy had to have his plane repainted as it would not pass its yearly due to some flaking paint. So what started out as a $13k paint job. Has now ballooned into about $100k in repairs! First the when pulling the motors they found cracks in the motor mounts, next he needs to rebuild one of the motors, decides to do both. Now the cranks and cases he has no longer can be used, so its cheaper to buy two new motors.

[Rinty]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

...the level of safety in aviation is up to the pilot. The accident record would be cut in half if pilots quit doing two things:

-Quit running out of gas!
-Quit flying into bad weather!

I subscribed to the Canadian MOT accident reports for many years, and came to the conclusion that if you fly a tricycle (land) gear airplane in daylight, in good weather, at reasonable altitudes, and sober, then it's a fairly safe activity.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by vonsmog

My buddy had to have his plane repainted as it would not pass its yearly due to some flaking paint. So what started out as a $13k paint job. Has now ballooned into about $100k in repairs! First the when pulling the motors they found cracks in the motor mounts, next he needs to rebuild one of the motors, decides to do both. Now the cranks and cases he has no longer can be used, so its cheaper to buy two new motors.

The joys of owning a twin. 3x the cost! Just kidding, sort of.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

I've thought about a homebuilt myself. And the ability to use the much less expensive avionics. The problem is the wife likes the four seater....

My local FBO has a really nice Cessna 182 for when I need four seats. A step down from the Bonanza, but with a G1000 glass panel I suppose I could fly it if necessary. It isn't scheduled nearly as often as the 172s, so availability shouldn't be a problem.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by vonsmog

My buddy had to have his plane repainted as it would not pass its yearly due to some flaking paint. So what started out as a $13k paint job. Has now ballooned into about $100k in repairs! First the when pulling the motors they found cracks in the motor mounts, next he needs to rebuild one of the motors, decides to do both. Now the cranks and cases he has no longer can be used, so its cheaper to buy two new motors.

Flaking paint is just cosmetic; not an airworthiness issue, but cracks in the motor mounts sure are!

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

But on the way back I was informed that my transponder wasn't working, so it's in the shop today getting a new one installed. I was told 8 to 10 hours installation time at $95 per hour. Plus the cost of the transponder. I also have to think about meeting some new equipment requirements in 2020, that's probably going to cost me another 4 or 5 thousand.

The avionics guys I have used in the past usually quote me a "job price". I don't like having an open ended contract for work. When I had my Garmin 430 installed, it cost me about $1500. When I had my transponder installed, it was about $700. (Those prices don't include the equipment)

As for transponder, I highly recommend the Garmin 335. It meets the ADS-B requirement of 2020 now so that you don't have to pay for another piece of equipment and labor in 4 years.

Or if you just want the cheap "fix it for now" option - replace what you have with a like unit. IE, if you have a King KT-76A, buy a good used one ($400) and swap it yourself. It takes like 2 minutes. And since radios and transponders are "rack mount" it is legal for the owner to swap good for bad when staying with the same model unit.

Originally Posted by dmcummins

It cost me about 20 to 25 thousand a year to own the plane and fly 100 hours. And this is if nothing breaks.

WHY ????

When I had a Cessna 172, insurance was about $800 per year and the annual usually set me back only ~$1k or so.

It costs me about $1800 per year to insure this, and about $65/hr in gas.

[greglepore]

Is that a Pitts?

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Is that a Pitts?

Close. It is a Steen Skybolt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt
Steen Aero Lab - Steen Skybolt Homepage

[rusnak]

^ I have loved airplanes from as far back as I can remember. I would probably kill myself flying one though.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by rusnak

^ I have loved airplanes from as far back as I can remember. I would probably kill myself flying one though.

While I've done some truly nutty things that could have cost me my life, flying isn't one of them. Though fun, I've always taken flying seriously.
You don't have to be "on the edge" to have an amazing experience.

A simple intro flight at the local airport is highly recommended!

[rusnak]

No, I'm saying that flying looks really hard, and things move really fast. Forget being nutty, I'd just do something stupid and fall to the ground screaming like a baby.

[SpyderMike]

Flying should be very safe and very methodical. I approach it with a different mindset than daily tasks. That routine and the small level of anxiety associated with it keeps me safer (I hope). I flew from So Cal to So Oregon today nonstop...great day to be above the ground. 3 hours 15 minutes in the air vs. 13 hours with a zillion nutbags on the I5 on the ground. I had 20kts -25 it's on the tail and 192 kts across the ground. And you get views like this:

[sammyg2]

If it floats, flies, or ****s, it's cheaper to rent it

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

If it floats, flies, or ****s, it's cheaper to rent it

Yes, and a used Toyota Corolla is cheaper than a Porsche. Too bad. I'll drive the Porsche anyway.

I don't fly to save money- I save money to fly!

[dmcummins]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

The avionics guys I have used in the past usually quote me a "job price". I don't like having an open ended contract for work. When I had my Garmin 430 installed, it cost me about $1500. When I had my transponder installed, it was about $700. (Those prices don't include the equipment)

As for transponder, I highly recommend the Garmin 335. It meets the ADS-B requirement of 2020 now so that you don't have to pay for another piece of equipment and labor in 4 years.

Or if you just want the cheap "fix it for now" option - replace what you have with a like unit. IE, if you have a King KT-76A, buy a good used one ($400) and swap it yourself. It takes like 2 minutes. And since radios and transponders are "rack mount" it is legal for the owner to swap good for bad when staying with the same model unit.




WHY ????

When I had a Cessna 172, insurance was about $800 per year and the annual usually set me back only ~$1k or so.

It costs me about $1800 per year to insure this, and about $65/hr in gas.

Hangar is $3600, insurance is $1200, annuals are $2000-$2500. Fuel for 100 hrs is around $5,500. So that's $12,300 not counting IFR certs, BFR, Some hood time or other training. This year I had the starter adapter rebuilt as it was starting to slip, add the transponder and I'm at $3,000 in maintenance already. So $15,000 plus and the annual is in July, I'm not expecting any problems though.

The transponder was a narco AT-5, it was from the early 70's. I checked at two of the larger avionics shop and they were amazed to even see one. So no slide in replacement. I'm going with a used Garmin 327 for now, I'll probably just add a box to meet the adsb requirements later.

[dmcummins]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

There are many good points mentioned above. DM I think your average running costs should come down each year.In theory anyway!
Kind of like a Porsche air cooled where you are replacing and upgrading parts. The value of your plane is increasing because of it and apparently you don't lose when selling an aircraft(that is the theory anyway unless the engine needs a major overhaul).

In addition if you rented an aircraft of this calibre I am sure it would be pretty expensive(if you could find one like this). If you downgraded and rented a C172 it would be 50 mph slower and considerably cheaper.

To me that is the major problem with private ownership is that the aircraft is not used enough. Then you have shared ownership with its associated headaches of inconvenience and possible arguments with the joint owners.

To me it all boils down to $$$. Would you rather spend the $$ on something else?
Now you have owned an aircraft like this I would think it would be very hard to give it up. Great looking aircraft.
Guy

Thanks,

All I see for rent are ragged out 152's and 172's. Plus forget about taking one on a cross country trip for a week or so. I considered joint ownership, but elected to just buy what I could afford to own by myself. I do complain about some of the cost, but mechanically I don't scrimp. My radios may be old, but anything that keeps it flying is going to be in good shape.

[dmcummins]

I looked at the Garmin 335, but installed with waas, I was looking at around $5000. I'll probably still be looking at about the same price total, but I won't have to spend the extra $3000 now. And hopefully prices may come down some.

I stopped at the shop today, I've been out of town, and the plane is ready. I just got there at closing time and don't know the final bill. But the guy that was still there said they didn't have any problems. I'll get it Monday.

[SpyderMike]

I thought piston was expensive until I started looking at an Eclipse VLJ...those run at about $200k per year. Yikes!