How did the tail-end of Baby-Boomers produce such dysfunction?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

compared to the shaft we got? you bet your ass it was "free"

i worked part time as an engineering intern, in school, and full time every summer, and didn't even pay for half my college, and i did not go to an expensive school. in fact literally the same school my dad went to. so go and tell me that working part time, at target, in the summer to pay for all of your college and living expenses, isn't easier. cause thats what the boomers got. might as well have been free how easy they got it. the boomers were born on 3rd, and just had to work there way home. we are starting the count at 2 strikes, but clearly, its just because we are lazy.

I am an engineer. economic data is no different than any other form of data. the objective data shows quite conclusively, that millennials are working harder, for less money, and starting adult life 10-100 grand behind the boomers, entering the workforce in the worst economy since the great depression, from a crash the boomers caused. but clearly, its just because we are lazy.

and we are entitled?

but we do text too much.

LOL. I worked full time and two part time jobs when I was getting my engineering degree...plus had a wife and kids to raise (because that was expected of adults back then).

In many places the recession of the '70s was much harsher than the current one as here were really not a lot of these social welfare programs that pay one not to work (and competition for work...so folks could eat...was fierce, even for fast food jobs). There really were no jobs available then (not just jobs that lazy, entitled folks refuse to do today).

When I was 15 and legally able to stop working the fields, sawing wood, etc. for a real job in fast food (much more money as you cannot work the fields off season, after dark, etc)...it paid $1.60 hr and you often worked a lot of hours where you were not paid (cleanup, etc). You also had today for your own uniforms and cleaning out of your check. The employer actually made you dress at work to make sure that you used their cleaning service to ensure you didn't half ass do it yourself of wear a dirty shirt. Other folks that flipped burgers with me were middle age guys with engineering degrees, MBAs, etc...who had families to feed and had become unemployed.

Yes...like some have pointed out...it is the parent's fault to some extent (but also the stupid societal "evolution" that makes each person feel entitled). My own daughter that I love dearly (youngest child) is not too terribly much older than JD or Cocker and although pretty impressive compared to many of her peers...and shows some of the same traits. Contrary to posts like some of the millennials who post here, her opportunities have been exponential to mine at the same age. She is around 30, out of med school for almost 4 years, and is a well respected family practice doctor with no debt and with little or no sacrifice has over $100K in the bank (I think I worked over 5 years before I broke $5K per year). Even so, she is just not "hungry" regarding work, she complains incessantly about her job, long hours, conditions, etc. (all seem fabulous to me). Her university education (outside her specialty) puts her far behind me (even when I graduated High School). Although a genius compared to many peers, she is weak in civics, history, the arts...even in math and science...not to mention current events. She seems lazy and spoiled compared to her parents...although we have always been more frugal and driven than most of our acquaintenances (once I graduated from high school at 17). She constantly takes expensive vacations in exotic locations (but I guess that she can afford them due to her great job) and works as few hours as possible (but many more than her peers). After working four years, she expects similar or better housing, toys, restaurants, etc. than I did after working for 30 years. She is a wonderful daughter... smart, beautiful, athletic, engaging...but, frankly...somewhat a princess. Just like Cocker, but to a lesser extent.

[wayner]

Flintstone did a great job of describing growing up back then

While influenced by modern society his daughter obviously gained some work ethic


For me, while I was messing around with old cars because I grew up as a compulsive do it yourselfer that couldn't throw anything away, my son took his grass cutting money and bought a late model mustang instead

After that he spent his work savings on an engineering degree

My wife and I agree me that whatever we did raising the kids by the time they were 8 or 12 Had better give them good work ethic and decision making skills because after that age we wouldn't have much influence

I think we were right

Now we just stay out of their way as they succeed and find opportunities where they can. Good jobs, careers and out on their own with no debt at relatively young ages

I think it pays for parents to do the hard things sometimes instead of doing whatever it takes to be liked.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by wayner

I think it pays for parents to do the hard things sometimes instead of doing whatever it takes to be liked.

That is, to me, the quintessential characteristic of a good parent.

I tried hard to make sure my children knew, when appropriate, not only how much I loved them but how much I expected from them.

A missile without a guidance system is incoming.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

A missile without a guidance system is incoming.

Another great quote from you!
Thanks

[wayner]

It's a rare sight, but I have the deepest respect for a parents who is sleep deprived, kid in tow, just trying to pickup some groceries, yet if the situation calls for it, will leave the checkout line and a hours worth of shopping in their cart, and haul a kid straight to the car.

When I have seen that I know they made a hard decision that will pay dividends

Other people with equally unruly kids scour and the nerv of that parent. Meanwhile I secretly applaud them. ( one day I might even buy that shopping cart and deliver it to them if I could)

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by rusnak

You know the answer to that.

To me, the most terrifying part of owning a business is that the government wants to criminalize parts of normal life challenges. They think that they can create a giant prophylactic bubble around the world and create a fantasy dreamland free of risk, pain, and uncertainty. Activists push around government on the local, and state levels. We have an activist in the White House. They rather capriciously come up with draconian laws to require business owners to regularly take it up the ass because THEY don't want to actually do the work to create said dreamland. They want us to do it for them while they sit on the couch eating free government cheese.

What kind of business do you own?

[fintstone]

Entitled? You tell me.

Accused Thief Says The Stupidest Thing Possible To Arresting Officers
Accused Thief Says The Stupidest Thing Possible To Arresting Officers | The Smoking Gun

After being arrested Friday for stealing items from a jeweler in a Florida mall, Prolancia Aquila Turner, 26, was pissed.

Not at herself, of course, for hiding earrings valued at $12.50 in the waistband of her pants.

Instead, the “crying and angry” Turner, 26, was miffed because, as she told police, “Everyone steals from this store. Why are you picking on me?”

Seen in the adjacent mug shot, Turner was charged with retail theft for pilfering the merchandise from a Claire’s outlet in a Vero Beach mall. She is scheduled for a June 7 court appearance in connection with the misdemeanor count.

Turner’s rap sheet includes two other theft arrests, both in 2015. It is unknown whether she considers those collars equally unjust as her latest bust.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

What kind of business do you own?

Real estate development. And other things. I'm going to be selling a crap ton of twinkies and gas. I can only imagine how bad that's going to be.

There are laws against dust created by the state's air pollution board. So you rent a water meter from the city, and spray water on the ground. When the water runs into a storm drain, you are fined by the local flood control district. And when the weeds grow in the summer because you just watered them, you are fined by the city code enforcement for weed abatement. But if you get a tractor and disc the weeds, then you just created more dust. The only way not to create dust is to use more water.

That is what I mean by the arbitrary governmental criminalization of every day life.

[daepp]

I think Wayner's treatise/a few ideas is very accurate in describing what many of the Boomers did (over-indulge their spawn), and why they did it (children of Depression era parents; wanting better for their spawn). I get that. I even did some of that.

However I remain convinced there has been a subtle, underhanded, steady move by progressives, dating to the 1930's and the Frankfurt School types, to infiltrate the colleges and universities, and by extension, K-12 by indoctrinating the future teachers at the teaching colleges.

They got to the US too late to much influence the "Greatest Generation" , who were fighting wars and recovering from the Depression in the post war building boom. They came from Germany and Austria, but I don't think they were noticed much back then.

Their influence really began to take hold in the late 50's and 60's, and while I don't want to PARF this up, I mention it as an additional factor (not mentioned by Wayner) but that almost subconsciously influenced the Boomers and got us where we are today.

One easy example can be seen in the Boomers' notion that no kid should be "just a plumber" and the ultimate dismantling of a once robust and effective vocational ed system in this country. Johnny just has to go to college. Show me a Boomer parent that didn't pressure little Johnny to go to college...

However, I can only speak for this tail-end-Boomer - I had no idea about it until recently.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by rusnak

You know the answer to that.

To me, the most terrifying part of owning a business is that the government wants to criminalize parts of normal life challenges. They think that they can create a giant prophylactic bubble around the world and create a fantasy dreamland free of risk, pain, and uncertainty. Activists push around government on the local, and state levels. We have an activist in the White House. They rather capriciously come up with draconian laws to require business owners to regularly take it up the ass because THEY don't want to actually do the work to create said dreamland. They want us to do it for them while they sit on the couch eating free government cheese.

Yep.

In the last 6 months we've been visited by ICE (no fines or penalties), the AQMD (give them another $10K and retrofit our fuel tank for the ten second a month it gets re-filled), the Fire Dept (annual review, never had any issues to bring them out otherwise, the State Department of Environmental Health (to inspect our hazardous waste - dirty engine oil waiting to be properly disposed of), OSHA (no fines, ignored how we go above and beyond for our guys, but add this or that sentence to our IIPP), the county to inspect our Spill Control Plan, the Fire Dept again (we must now get a permit for our diesel tanks, that have been in place and in their records since 1989 but now we have to get a permit for them (and guess what, they cannot be permitted as the regs have changed).

And that's just what comes to mind in the last 5 minutes of typing.

And they all take exception to our reaction to what they say is "just a little paper work - it won't take much time..."

And all this without any spills, and accidents etc. So the real fear is about what they would do it there really was something actually wrong!

[daepp]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

[fintstone]

I’m a millennial and my generation sucks | New York Post

[Geneman]

there is hope:

Texas student homeless for 3 YEARS graduates top of his class and wins full college scholarship | Daily Mail Online

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Geneman

there is hope:

Texas student homeless for 3 YEARS graduates top of his class and wins full college scholarship | Daily Mail Online

I know an 18 year old ex Mormon girl who left home at 15 because she did not see eye to eye with the religion. She had no place to go but a crack house...from that starting point, at 18 she has 30 Units of College Credit at a JC, a paid for car (PT Cruiser), an 800 Credit rating, over $1000 in the bank and has two jobs.

[tabs]

Fint's story is very admirable, for what he has accomplished in his life. However even though he had to hustle to get where he is today, the opportunity was there for the taking. What this means is that the Boomers have never experienced real hardship of having no opportunity, as all they have known is a prosperous post WW2 America. Even Buffet came of age and started his career in this time of prosperity, and that is why he is a perennial optimist about the economy. How many times have I heard him say on TV since 2009 that he economy was about to turn around? How many times has he been wrong about that? Again the Boomers have only known the consequences of taking risk in the abstract, "Ohh yeah I suppose it can happen, but.." That is why the Greatest Gen saved their money as money meant security for them, while the Boomers largely see it as spendable.

What is changing today is that the opportunities are diminishing. Even the flip a burger job is going away to technology, jobs are being outsourced as it is cheaper over seas...

[JD159]

Originally Posted by tabs

Fint's story is very admirable, for what he has accomplished in his life. However even though he had to hustle to get where he is today, the opportunity was there for the taking. What this means is that the Boomers have never experienced real hardship of having no opportunity, as all they have known is a prosperous post WW2 America. Even Buffet came of age and started his career in this time of prosperity, and that is why he is a perennial optimist about the economy. How many times have I heard him say on TV since 2009 that he economy was about to turn around? How many times has he been wrong about that? Again the Boomers have only known the consequences of taking risk in the abstract, "Ohh yeah I suppose it can happen, but.." That is why the Greatest Gen saved their money as money meant security for them, while the Boomers largely see it as spendable.

What is changing today is that the opportunities are diminishing. Even the flip a burger job is going away to technology, jobs are being outsourced as it is cheaper over seas...

Good post.

[fintstone]

While the min wage jobs may be going away in the future, many go unfilled today simply because so many would rather just not work. There seems much more opportunity today...if one would just get off their lazy behind. It was almost impossible to get a job that paid minimum wage of more where/when I grew up.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by fintstone

While the min wage jobs may be going away in the future, many go unfilled today simply because so many would rather just not work. There seems much more opportunity today...if one would just get off their lazy behind. It was almost impossible to get a job that paid minimum wage of more where/when I grew up.

Not going to dispute that..but you coulda moved to where the opportunity was like CA where there were tons of aerospace jobs, or Detroit where there were car factory jobs...

Lots of European talent moved to the USA after WW2, cause that was where the dinero was... That movement of talent was the reason why America got so far ahead of everybody else in the world in science and technology. The USA for the past dozen years has been losing that edge.

[Crowbob]

I shoveled snow year round, with a hay fork, uphill.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by tabs

Not going to dispute that..but you coulda moved to where the opportunity was like CA where there were tons of aerospace jobs, or Detroit where there were car factory jobs...

How would I have even known? It is not like we had cablevision or the internet. How would I have paid for it? Leaving a minimum wage job to move to another minimum wage job on the other side of the country was really beyond the ability of most folks.