How did the tail-end of Baby-Boomers produce such dysfunction?

[fintstone]

I wouldn't expect to live a decent quality of life in an entry-level job trying to pay off a foolishly taken $100K loan in just 3 years. I would suck it up for a few years and then get on with my life.

The other option is to pay for decades and have a decent life..or...just don't borrow the money.

[rusnak]

I couldn't imagine re-living my 20s and early 30s over again. I suffered tremendously getting established, and working for other people. I remember staying home or working when my friends were all going out. I left those friends behind and went my own way. To me, living it up was being able to afford an order of special chow mein and renting a movie at the VCR rental place. Buying beer was for rich folk, haha! I don't regret it now, but I doubt that I'd have the mental strength to do it over. Maybe I would, but it was terrible.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I wouldn't expect to live a decent quality of life in an entry-level job trying to pay off a foolishly taken $100K loan in just 3 years. I would suck it up for a few years and then get on with my life.

The other option is to pay for decades and have a decent life..or...just don't borrow the money.

I'm going with the last option. And this was the point I was making.

Yes millennials take for granted what they have. Most people in developed nations take for granted what they have.

You mentioned something earlier about some millennials being hardened through military experience.

Many countries, like Canada and the European countries, do not have the military culture that the US has. These countries have millennials, and generation X'ers (Flint, this would be you correct? 1965-1980ish) who have not been hardened through military experience.

Are these individuals considered "snowflakes" and have the same entitlement issues??

I'm just noticing that much of what you and others consider to be issues with millennials can be applied to pretty much anyone who has either not experienced hardship or been in the military, as these seem to be the two driving factors in which a "millennial" attitude is born.

[rusnak]

JD, what I notice among the 20-somethings that I hire, is that they expect pay raises, time off for social life, and the like. I have had to institute a no whining policy. Whine, and you go home. The rest of us don't want to hear it because we are all working just as hard. My adjustment to the younger culture is to make it a point to have fun, and to make time for play during breaks. I also pay for their food and sodas, etc...which has a big morale lifting effect because I notice that the younger workers want to feel appreciated. They will work a menial job, if they know that I appreciate them. That is a huge cultural shift that I have gone with and supported among the crew.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by rusnak

JD, what I notice among the 20-somethings that I hire, is that they expect pay raises, time off for social life, and the like. I have had to institute a no whining policy. Whine, and you go home. The rest of us don't want to hear it because we are all working just as hard. My adjustment to the younger culture is to make it a point to have fun, and to make time for play during breaks. I also pay for their food and sodas, etc...which has a big morale lifting effect because I notice that the younger workers want to feel appreciated. They will work a menial job, if they know that I appreciate them. That is a huge cultural shift that I have gone with and supported among the crew.

Interesting. I suppose when I am in a leadership role (see how entitled I am!?!) I will see more of this, especially if I am dealing with individuals in my age range. Wonder if the millennial -ness will have worn off by then as that won't be for a number of years.

But when did you start hiring people??? Have you been in a position where you were hiring people the same age as yourself when you were in your early to mid 20's??

What I mean is that perhaps those in leadership roles, who were hiring the 20-somethings, 20 something years ago, felt the same as you do now.

I understand you see a difference when you hire someone who is older, and you don't see the same negative characteristics, but is it not something that is tied to the age of the employee?

When you hire the 30 and 40 something's, you don't see the same tendencies as the 20 something's, but that seems to explain itself.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

I'm going with the last option. And this was the point I was making.

Yes millennials take for granted what they have. Most people in developed nations take for granted what they have.

You mentioned something earlier about some millennials being hardened through military experience.

Many countries, like Canada and the European countries, do not have the military culture that the US has. These countries have millennials, and generation X'ers (Flint, this would be you correct? 1965-1980ish) who have not been hardened through military experience.

Are these individuals considered "snowflakes" and have the same entitlement issues??

I'm just noticing that much of what you and others consider to be issues with millennials can be applied to pretty much anyone who has either not experienced hardship or been in the military, as these seem to be the two driving factors in which a "millennial" attitude is born.

No. I am not a Gen Xer. No, we grew up very differently than now. Our expectations were low and we were very hungry. I did not receive money from my parents after about 10 or 12 years old and was expected to move out when I graduated from high school (if not before) and take care of myself (and wife and children soon afterwards).

[Crowbob]

The question now becomes what is going to get all these millennial snowflakes out of their predicaments?

Their predicament becomes our predicament simply because of the sheer numbers involved.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

The question now becomes what is going to get all these millennial snowflakes out of their predicaments?

Their predicament becomes our predicament simply because of the sheer numbers involved.

You won't be able to. Baby-boomers are getting too old too fast. Gen X'ers value a work-life balance too much so they won't be of much help either.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

The question now becomes what is going to get all these millennial snowflakes out of their predicaments?

Their predicament becomes our predicament simply because of the sheer numbers involved.

When you screw up, you pay for it and learn your lesson. When the real estate market crashed, no one bailed me out and I lost several hundreds of thousands (home prices dropped by over 65% and both my job and my wife's job were eliminated). With almost no notice and no projected severance, I had to suck it up, move out of my fabulous new house (left it vacant) to find employment in another state (which was initially a much lower level position). It has cost me around $50K per year for the last 10 years to service that debt/situation. No one bailed me out. I paid my own bills, but reduced my lifestyle significantly.

Recently, as my finances improved, to help quickly reduce this debt, I really sucked it up and paid off one of my mortgages by paying a very large amount each month (directly out of my "decent lifestyle" funds) for a few years, paying off about $200K very quickly (in addition to other bills/debt). There is no reason a millennial could not do the same (live well below their means for several years to reach their goals/improve long-term prospects). My paying off close to $100K per year is probably roughly equivalent to the millennial example above.

Let them learn to be adults and that their decisions have repercussions. They will pay off their debts eventually. They can either choose to live very frugally and pay them off quickly and get on with their lives or live "decently" and let the debt drag on for decades (while whining daily about how it is just not fair). Maybe the next generation will learn from their mistakes/whining and not incur massive debt that is difficult to service.

Put an end to government-backed student loans now. Make schools compete for students on a cost/benefit basis like any business to drive costs down. Save the next generation from themselves. If we offer them low-interest, unsecured loans, they will take them. It is like giving a teen or young adult crack (for their own good). They will almost always take it...and come back for more. It quickly becomes a "necessity" of life.