Baylor, Stanford, etc. it is nothing new

[74-911]

This past weekend my wife, her sister (late/mid 60's)and our daughter (mid 40s) were sitting around sharing a bottle of wine and the subject of campus rape came up. Wonder why?? ALL 3 started discussing what had happened to them when in college and there was a very common thread:
Naive 18 YO freshmen (wife and her sister from very small town high schools) at Big State U.
Being invited to Frat mixers
The booze of choice in those days (grape juice and EverClear) and encourage to "drink up".
As the night wore on being cornered and isolated by BMOCs (football players in all 3 instances - after all this is TX). None were actually raped but not because of the BMOC not trying.
The main thing they discussed though was how they felt absolutely powerless while being cornered, groped and all but sexually assaulted by 200+ lb. males...

and they had all pushed it to the back of their memories but it had all come back with the recent happenings, particularly at Stanford. Wife said she could remember little of college from 50 years ago but that night? she could remember every thing including the guys name and exactly what he looked like.

Wonder how many of your wives, significant others had similar experiences ??

[GH85Carrera]

I suspect it is a lot more common than most men think.

I dated a lady many years ago that was assaulted and almost raped. Only because there was one young MAN that stood up to the other "BMOCs" and he managed to stop it.

She pointed out one thing to me that shocked me with how obvious it was.

As a guy I have walked around in some sketchy areas and situations and never even thought about being raped. She was a 110 pound attractive woman and she said it is something that is always in the front of her mind.

[notfarnow]

We probably don't realize the extent of the issue, because most women don't want to talk to men about it for risk of being judged or blamed.

One of my friends told me last year that she was roofied at a party when she was ~20 and came to half undressed, with her "friend" on top of her

A girl I was dating a while ago told me she was raped by her roomate's brother after a party at university. Happened on campus, administration encouraged her to settle

Another friend of mine was catching a cab home after a wedding, one of the groom's friends asked if he could tag along, got off at her stop and assaulted her. She didn't want to make a fuss afterwards and "embarass" the groom by outing his brother

[flyenby]

If you are a Rapist you are a low life scum bag....

[masraum]

Originally Posted by flyenby

If you are a Rapist you are a low life scum bag....

And, there are no excuses that you can give.

I'm sure that there are some cases where the deed was consensual and then the girl got pissed and decided to get revenge or something equally unsavory, but I suspect those are a tenth of a percent or less.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by flyenby

If you are a Rapist you are a low life scum bag....

I'm less and less inclined to think it's as simple as that. I bet we all have a friend who is a really good guy who has raped/assaulted someone and just doesn't see it that way.

Even in those situations I cited above,2 of the women didn't make a stink about it because it was someone they knew, and they felt like they wouldn't be believed and they would be criticized. The one who DID make a fuss and pursued it had a terrible time, lost many friends and ended up dropping out of university.

Just think back to when you were in high school and university, how certain drinks were called "panty removers" etc. I'm not talking about getting boozed up and hooking up... I think a lot of guys get defensive because we enjoyed that *consentual* play. But there is a difference between enjoying the company of a woman who is horny because she is drunk vs specifically trying to get (or find) women too drunk too say no... that stuff goes on WAY more than we realize
There was a guy in high school that we had to consistently pull away from girls at parties. Nice guy, everyone liked him... everyone. But when he was drinking he'd get increasingly aggressive with girls, trying to get them drunk, trying to corner them. We'd keep an eye out and warn girls to watch out, and after a while he stopped being invited or would be sent packing... but he must have ended up at other parties.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

I'm less and less inclined to think it's as simple as that. I bet we all have a friend who is a really good guy who has raped/assaulted someone and just doesn't see it that way.

I'm not sure that makes it any less wrong. I'm sure the 17yo ricer weaving in and out of traffic at 80 in a 35mph zone doesn't think he's actually doing anything wrong. Maybe not a good example, but really, not that far off.

Even in those situations I cited above,2 of the women didn't make a stink about it because it was someone they knew, and they felt like they wouldn't be believed and they would be criticized. The one who DID make a fuss and pursued it had a terrible time, lost many friends and ended up dropping out of university.

That really sucks for all 3, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

I'm less and less inclined to think it's as simple as that. I bet we all have a friend who is a really good guy who has raped/assaulted someone and just doesn't see it that way.

I would disagree. Two drunks fumbling through an unfortunate tryst is one thing, rape/assault is another matter entirely.

[notfarnow]

You're both 100% right, I guess my point wasn't made well.

We tend to imagine rapists as someone really different from the people around us. Women do too, and they learn the hard way that's not the truth. The majority of women are raped by someone they know, not some stranger who randomly accosts them. That's scary

[scottmandue]

And it doesn't have to happen at an ivy league college.

My first girlfriend lived in low income housing with her single alcoholic mother.

She liked hanging out with a group of older kids who were a bunch of hippy dead heads... one day she got left alone with two of the guys... they didn't almost rape her they did the deed.

Another lady friend got pulled into the bushes at knife point on the UCLA campus.

The evil that men do...

[KFC911]

One of my roommates in college was a beautiful young girl, all american swimmer, and served as one of the "mascot babes" when the football recruits were brought on campus. Her rape didn't occur during one of those events however it did occur....she never reported it. It's pretty common, and no amount of alcohol, friendliness, etc. can justify a despicable act upon a female.

[nostatic]

The military is acknowledging a significant sexual harassment/sexual assault problem. And the majority of the incidents are male-on-male.

Part of the problem is the double-standards around sexuality and objectification. For instance pretty much everyone thinks that an adult male in a position of authority (e.g. a teacher) having sex with a underage female is wrong. Yet switch the genders and it is "gee, where were the hottie teachers when I was a kid" and fist pumping.

Assault is assault, rape is rape. Our culture objectifies and provides tacit (and sometimes overt) approval. Then we wonder why bad things happen.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

You're both 100% right, I guess my point wasn't made well.

We tend to imagine rapists as someone really different from the people around us. Women do too, and they learn the hard way that's not the truth. The majority of women are raped by someone they know, not some stranger who randomly accosts them. That's scary

OK, yeah, I can agree with that.

[ZOO]

Every story shared here is an example of rape culture. We need to believe women when they say we live in a rape culture, and then we need to work for change.

I have frequent, and direct, conversations with the three young men in my blended family about consent. They don't necessarily like it, but they do hear it.

Now I am trying to figure out how, as a dad, I can have an equally direct and meaningful conversation with my daughter (13). The consent part is easy. But about all the other components that are part of helping her in the 21st Century.

Have any dads here had that conversation with their daughters?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by nostatic

The military is acknowledging a significant sexual harassment/sexual assault problem. And the majority of the incidents are male-on-male.

Part of the problem is the double-standards around sexuality and objectification. For instance pretty much everyone thinks that an adult male in a position of authority (e.g. a teacher) having sex with a underage female is wrong. Yet switch the genders and it is "gee, where were the hottie teachers when I was a kid" and fist pumping.

Assault is assault, rape is rape. Our culture objectifies and provides tacit (and sometimes overt) approval. Then we wonder why bad things happen.

I don't think this is quite accurate. The incidence of rape is quite low in the military (unless you multiply the actual number times some huge nonsense multiplier that represents unreported cases to make it seem that way)...and almost nonexistent in some services (compared to the same age group and living condition in society). The "majority" are not male-on-male in any service (especially when you consider the much larger percentage of males)...although it is up significant this administration since "don't ask don't tell" became "gays are us" and being openly gay has become celebrated and popularized both in the military and Federal service with a huge emphasis on making gays and transsexuals another group deserving of "extra" opportunity. Much effort and money is spent on constant gay pride training, events, groups, months, etc. to celebrate gayness much like we celebrate women who report sexual harassment (whether a reasonable person would think it occurred or not). Make anything popular enough or supported by leadership enough and you will end up with more of it. We used to encourage bravery, leadership and efficiency.

[M.D. Holloway]

I went to basically an all girls school on an island as an undergrad. After September finished and the winds of October kicked in, the boy friends back home weren't paying as much attention as what the summer afforded. I put in zero effort for bountiful gains. I knew that it was not reality and that in no real place outside of that small college in Newport RI would I or any other guy (all 114 of us) would ever have so much opportunity to explore our virility without even as much as trying out corny lines or attempting to get them tipsy. We didn't have to. Bacchus and Aphrodite had conjured up the plan, we were merely tools at their disposal. Friends from other schools would visit. They couldn't fathom it until witnessed.

I can not relate or even understand how a young man could force himself on a girl let alone getting her drunk to do so. I was never witness to it and the thought is abhorrent. The most aggressive I ever was entailed a coy smile and a suggestion to take a walk on the beach.

[flatbutt]

Any man who uses drugs or physical superiority to rape a woman is undeserving of respect, sympathy or being called "a man".

[911michael]

Someone mentioned false accusations. Here is a long article about rape on campus that also addresses what can happen to a male student who thought it was consensual and later learned the girl claimed it wasn't.

Campus rape and efforts to protect the women

[notfarnow]

False accusations of rape are estimated to be somewhere around 5%. Every instance of that is abhorrent and has severe impacts, but in terms of things we should be worried about it pales in comparison to the statistic that 85% or rapes go UNREPORTED, and of those, the ones that are reported rarely result in a conviction.

[fintstone]

How could we ever know if false accusations are 5% and unreported tapes are 85%...if unreported? These are just manufactured statistics to further a cause.