Bruce Lee vs Muhammad Ali

[javadog]

Jhoon Goo Rhee taught Bruce Lee how to kick and also taught Ali a few things about punching.

This is a lousy video, but Rhee has a few things to say about Bruce:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ali+vs+lee&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

You have to forgive the mispelling of his name in the video. Round-eyes can be dumb.

When I was in Tae Kwon Do, I saw very few high level matches that were won with anything other than a punch. Ali had incredible reach, speed and power. I don't think Lee could have landed anything bothersome on him before Ali took him out. You really need to go back and watch just how good Ali was, both in punching and in dodging a punch. At his prime, I think he was better than anybody, before or since.

JR

[pwd72s]

Ali by an early knockout...

[MikeSid]

Gloves or no gloves?
I think a glove might be the only thing that would prevent Ali's hand from going all the way through Lee.

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Ali by an early knockout...

^^^^For sure!

This comparison is like asking if Chuck Liddell could beat Hulk Hogan. One was a fighter and one was an actor. Besides, Bruce Lee was 5' 7" and weighted 140 in his prime. Ali was 6'3 and 235 in his prime. If Lee tried to get close enough to hit Ali once, Ali would knock him unconscious.

Go out and swing a balsa wood wiffle-ball bat fast and hard 30 times at a 4x4 fence post. When you're done, swing at it once with a white ash Louisville Slugger and tell me which did more damage.

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by javadog

Jhoon Goo Rhee taught Bruce Lee how to kick and also taught Ali a few things about punching.

This is a lousy video, but Rhee has a few things to say about Bruce:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ali+vs+lee&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

You have to forgive the mispelling of his name in the video. Round-eyes can be dumb.

When I was in Tae Kwon Do, I saw very few high level matches that were won with anything other than a punch. Ali had incredible reach, speed and power. I don't think Lee could have landed anything bothersome on him before Ali took him out. You really need to go back and watch just how good Ali was, both in punching and in dodging a punch. At his prime, I think he was better than anybody, before or since.

JR

Ali's defensive style was the best that I had ever watched.
And I began to watch him when he was an Olympian - black/white TV.

[JavaBrewer]

Did Ali ever train in other fighting disciplines? Similar question I'm not sure Bruce was all that proficient in a ground game to put Ali into an unknown spot. You would think that Bruce would avoid a boxing style attack and go for the legs to reduce mobility. Ali would go for an overwhelming pressure style attack and knock out.

As mentioned Bruce was not really a professional fighter. Sure he did some competitions early on but that was side tracked with his movie career. He did develop a new fighting style, borrowing bits from other more traditional forms, and it is being taught today.

Personally, a more interesting match up, IMO, would be Ali vs. Royce Gracie. Of course that would mean a MMA style fight. If purely boxing then Ali all day long wins.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

Did Ali ever train in other fighting disciplines?

As I mentioned above, he spent a little time with Jhoon Goo Rhee.

[Don Ro]

Another interesting match-up would be Anderson Silva/Ali...although Ali would out weigh AS (185 lbs.)
Silva takes MMA to a whole new level.

[jyl]

"No weapons, just hand to hand. Strikes above the waist"

That's basically kickboxing rules.

Ali wins.
Ali was much bigger, heavier, taller, with a much longer reach than Lee.
Ali had comparable, or at least competitive, hand speed.
Ali could slip and block punches with the best of them.
Ali's punches would be harder than Lee's. Probably much harder, based on relative size.
Lee's ability to kick wouldn't be a deciding factor. Kicks are too slow for a fighter as slippery as Ali, especially when Lee has to launch them from far away at a much taller man. (As an aside, in kickboxing, fighters don't actually kick very much, and their most common kick by far is a "low kick", a low kick from Lee wouldn't put Ali down but Lee would be in easy range for Ali.)
Lee's ability to slip, block, and absorb punches is, afaik, unproven.
Finally, Ali was a real professional fighter, Lee chose a different path - just as amazing, but different.

Honestly, I think Lee's chances against Ali would be no better than a great welterweight vs a great heavyweight.

[jyl]

This reminds me of threads from many years ago in which we discussed whether a grizzly bear would beat a Siberian tiger in a cage match. I think most votes were for the bear.

By the way, if you've ever wondered why few women join our discussions . . .

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

Did Ali ever train in other fighting disciplines? Similar question I'm not sure Bruce was all that proficient in a ground game to put Ali into an unknown spot. You would think that Bruce would avoid a boxing style attack and go for the legs to reduce mobility. Ali would go for an overwhelming pressure style attack and knock out.

As mentioned Bruce was not really a professional fighter. Sure he did some competitions early on but that was side tracked with his movie career. He did develop a new fighting style, borrowing bits from other more traditional forms, and it is being taught today.

Personally, a more interesting match up, IMO, would be Ali vs. Royce Gracie. Of course that would mean a MMA style fight. If purely boxing then Ali all day long wins.

Royce would destroy Bruce Lee. He would more than likely beat Ali too. We're basically asking the question, which is the most effective discipline if you only knew one style.
UFC one already answered this question which is why the sport evolved into mixed martial arts. A person with no ground game training would not last more than a minute (yes literally) with a decent Jiu Jitsu practitioner.

[sammyg2]

Bruce Lee was an ACTOR, a pretender.

Cassius Clay was a low class draft-dodging loud mouth braggart, but he was also a very, very good fighter (in his prime when he wasn't hiding in the corner).

So IMO it's kind of a dumb question.


flame on

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

Royce would destroy Bruce Lee. He would more than likely beat Ali too. We're basically asking the question, which is the most effective discipline if you only knew one style.
UFC one already answered this question which is why the sport evolved into mixed martial arts. A person with no ground game training would not last more than a minute (yes literally) with a decent Jiu Jitsu practitioner.

That is until his buddy uses your head for a field goal attempt.
There are no rules on the street.

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

That is until his buddy uses your head for a field goal attempt.
There are no rules on the street.

I must have missed you're point. You mean that you might get jumped by more than one person? How is that obvious statement even closely related to this topic, but I guess I can play along. Now my buddies all come from around the corner and break the other guys arms before choking him out unconscious.

[Norm K]

John Rambo or Josey Wales?

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

I must have missed you're point. You mean that you might get jumped by more than one person? How is that obvious statement even closely related to this topic, but I guess I can play along. Now my buddies all come from around the corner and break the other guys arms before choking him out unconscious.

No, I'm just commenting that thinking only one fighting style is the absolute best is an invitation for defeat.

[jyl]

Getting back on topic.

Watching Ali's fights, both early and late, is to re-appreciate, if that is a word, how fast and accurate his punches were, and how good he was at slipping punches, often by sliding his head backwards while keeping his long arms still in jabbing range. Here is a link to the Ali-Liston fights, Liston was a terror who had knocked out all before him, and he could hardly manage to land one on Ali.

https://youtu.be/NXYwb2C6Hec

Now imagine Lee, with his much shorter arms, trying to connect on Ali: Lee would be getting hit constantly while trying to reach the much bigger man. As for kicks, a kick takes so much longer than a punch, and frankly Ali's reach with his arms wouldn't have been much shorter than Lee's reach with his legs. Ali was criticized for supposedly not being a very hard hitter, and it is true that most of his KOs were TKOs, but that is against big men who could take heavy punishment. Against Lee, Ali's punches would have been flattening.

Again, that assumes blows only above the waist, as the OP posited.

[Norm K]

Kinda like this, only different ...

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by jyl

Getting back on topic.

Watching Ali's fights, both early and late, is to re-appreciate, if that is a word, how fast and accurate his punches were, and how good he was at slipping punches, often by sliding his head backwards while keeping his long arms still in jabbing range. Here is a link to the Ali-Liston fights, Liston was a terror who had knocked out all before him, and he could hardly manage to land one on Ali.

https://youtu.be/NXYwb2C6Hec

Now imagine Lee, with his much shorter arms, trying to connect on Ali: Lee would be getting hit constantly while trying to reach the much bigger man. As for kicks, a kick takes so much longer than a punch, and frankly Ali's reach with his arms wouldn't have been much shorter than Lee's reach with his legs. Ali was criticized for supposedly not being a very hard hitter, and it is true that most of his KOs were TKOs, but that is against big men who could take heavy punishment. Against Lee, Ali's punches would have been flattening.

Again, that assumes blows only above the waist, as the OP posited.

The assumption that Ali would connect and Lee would not is where I would question you. Lee was superhuman in his quickness. Would his punches knock out Ali? Not sure. Lee took down his opponents really fast too, and these were trained fighters using improvised tactics. Lee was a street fighter. He grew up as a street fighter and refined his style. He would, as I said, be advantaged if there were few rules and not like American boxing (think about Pacquaio/ Mayweather).

[jyl]

I think Lee could connect with his punch, but to do so he would be so close that Ali would be able to connect, and with something other than a long lead. So when a little guy and a big guy both hit each other, who goes down?