RE agent ethics question:

[fintstone]

Apparently in Minnesota, they commonly use arbitration to determine if there is an ethical violation where there is a commission dispute. Here are some of the things they look at:
http://www.saarealtors.com/PDF/ProStandards/ProcuringCauseGuidelines.pdf
This is the applicable portion:

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by speeder

Does no one read the fking OP before replying?

I read the OP and every subsequent post. Perhaps you could explain what I missed instead of being sarcastic. Don't ask for help if you really just want to piss folks off who attempt to provide advice.

Yes, I have bought a great deal of real estate (and sold some) and my wife has a license.

[KFC911]

Now for a serious question...maybe it varies by state. Here, unless you specificially contract a "buyer's agent" as a purchaser to be your agent, then both the listing agent and the agent showing in the OP have fiduciary oblgations that lie with the seller...there is no buyer's agent???

[rusnak]

There is no such thing as an implicit contract when it comes to real estate transactions.

Secondly, Denis would be teaching the kid how these transactions work. I don't know where you guys get the idea that he would not be properly represented.

Third, what Denis was asking about was breaking protocol, which I do all the time to my agent, who by the way, is a lazy POS. What I pay him for is to cold call, and that is worth a few 100K per year. Otherwise, running title, posting notices, Phase I, appraisals, insurance, etc is beyond what a rookie agent can do.

[fintstone]

If you purchase a property subsequent to a realtor showing you the property, he can likely make a very good case that the selling realtor should pay him his portion of the commission. If the Selling agent and his broker are not asking the question, they are very much in danger of being sanctioned for violating ethics and paying the commission (even if they did not collect the entire commission). A selling agent that did not ask you if you had talked to another agent (or shown the house by one) would be unethical and an idiot. Your not disclosing it would be equally unethical.

[rusnak]

The reason why there are listing agreements is so that the agreement can be depositied into escrow. If the realtor makes the claim that he has some sort of agreement outside of escrow, then he's the idiot, and frankly also unethical. No written agreement equals no agreement. Anyone who has taken the real estate exam knows that. Otherwise, there would be a jillion guys claiming they should get paid, from the mailman to the gardner, who's lawn mowing skillz undoubtedly led to the sale.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by NotaBRG

Sorry you missed out on that one.

I still have the house in Rochester.

No thanks. Just lookin'.

That's what I used to say in Home Depot when they cared about customer service.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by KC911

Now for a serious question...maybe it varies by state. Here, unless you specificially contract a "buyer's agent" as a purchaser to be your agent, then both the listing agent and the agent showing in the OP have fiduciary oblgations that lie with the seller...there is no buyer's agent???

The law regarding real estate transactions does vary state to state. It is wise to get an agreement with your agent in place early on to prevent confusion. Here is Minnesota's:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=82&view=chapter

The only houses I have bought in NC was without any realtor. If you buy a "for sale by owner" or convince someone to sell their home to you without it being listed...all you need is a lawyer to draw up the documents...or a closing company if you need a loan, title search, etc..

[vash]

i did the exact same thing.

the zillow guy forwarded me to "michelle". we chatted and i decided to meet her...i fired my agent five minutes later and went with michelle. she was a hard working agent!!

[speeder]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I read the OP and every subsequent post. Perhaps you could explain what I missed instead of being sarcastic. Don't ask for help if you really just want to piss folks off who attempt to provide advice.

Yes, I have bought a great deal of real estate (and sold some) and my wife has a license.

The reason I'm getting so frustrated w this thread, (besides being livid about missing out on a house I would have bought), is because I never suggested screwing the guy who showed me the house out of his commission. I know how that part of the business works and he was very clever, IMO, getting his name on the listing on Zillow w/o actually having anything to do w the listing. He knew nothing about the house.

If I had bought the house, he would have been entitled to his share of the commission but I still wanted to communicate directly w the seller. I did not trust that he would represent me properly and I'm 100% sure that he would have fk'ed up the proposed transaction or at least not presented it as well as I could have.

In fact, when I told the listing agent my terms, he took my number "in case anything falls through."

It won't.

[speeder]

The other thing is that I have no problem w using a buyer's agent but I have my own whom I've known for decades and trust completely, plus I'd want to give them the business.

The dumbest thing you can do in RE is to try to go it alone w/o using agents. They are a major resource and if chosen carefully and taken care of properly, they can make you a lot of $$. It's a 2-way street, of course. I have friends who have been buying lots of stuff in CA. for a while, they are pros to the core and they always utilize RE agents or brokers, or at least they'd never try to go around one or cheat them. Besides being ethically inexcusable, it would be very dumb business wise.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by speeder

I don't need a buyer's agent. And I'm dealing w properties where my offer might not be the highest but I offer other incentives so every thousand dollars matters and I want the listing agent to be motivated to push my offer.

My offer on places like this goes like this: all cash, no inspection, no appraisal, no contingencies and here is a check for X dollars, (5 figures), if the deal falls through for ANY reason on my end, you keep that $$. 7 day closing.

It gets their attention.

Fair enough, but for someone who seems to think he doesn't need a buyer's agent, the very first words out of your mouth concerning a property should be: "Are you the listing agent?". As you said, lesson learned there.

Just keep in mind that anytime you deal with a listing agent as an unrepresented buyer, it just muddies the waters. In a dual-agency situation, the listing agent cannot give either party their full attention and both buyer and seller get a lower standard of care by default (which you will likely agree to in writing). That is if the listing agent is ethical and treats both parties fairly/equally. In reality, most listing agents will still favor the sellers in a dual-agency deal. The more savvy/experienced you are as a buyer (and with as few moving parts to the deal as possible), the less of an issue in may become. However, if/when things go sideways, you can come up on the short end.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

Fair enough, but for someone who seems to think he doesn't need a buyer's agent, the very first words out of your mouth concerning a property should be: "Are you the listing agent?". As you said, lesson learned there.

Just keep in mind that anytime you deal with a listing agent as an unrepresented buyer, it just muddies the waters. In a dual-agency situation, the listing agent cannot give either party their full attention and both buyer and seller get a lower standard of care by default (which you will likely agree to in writing). That is if the listing agent is ethical and treats both parties fairly/equally. In reality, most listing agents will still favor the sellers in a dual-agency deal. The more savvy/experienced you are as a buyer (and with as few moving parts to the deal as possible), the less of an issue in may become. However, if/when things go sideways, you can come up on the short end.

For sure, you are correct. I did not ask him if he was the listing agent until 5-10 minutes into looking at the house when it became apparent that he did not know much about it. I did not know how Zillow works, now I do.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by speeder

The reason I'm getting so frustrated w this thread, (besides being livid about missing out on a house I would have bought), is because I never suggested screwing the guy who showed me the house out of his commission. I know how that part of the business works and he was very clever, IMO, getting his name on the listing on Zillow w/o actually having anything to do w the listing. He knew nothing about the house.

If I had bought the house, he would have been entitled to his share of the commission but I still wanted to communicate directly w the seller. I did not trust that he would represent me properly and I'm 100% sure that he would have fk'ed up the proposed transaction or at least not presented it as well as I could have.

I think it's clear you weren't trying to screw the kid.

If the property does become available again, the issue can be addressed/remedied with a compensation agreement, tied to that specific property, for a specific amount of time, ignited only upon a successful closing and sale.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by speeder

And now it's a moot point anyways because 5 min. after writing post #4, the listing agent returned my call and told me that it was sold an hour before.

Sold an hour before? Really? Lame.

The fact that the listing agent took your info tells me it may have an accepted offer, but that is a far cry from being "sold" (as in funded/closed/recorded).
It couldn't hurt to throw him a legitimate back-up offer. That way he will have something to present the seller (as opposed to just a verbal), and it might bode well if the deal starts to crumble.

Originally Posted by speeder

This was an estate/probate deal.

Ahh, well if that's the case, you probably dodged a bullet. Probate sales can be an absolute nightmare that drag on for several months.
That said, in many instances/jurisdictions an accepted offer may not be binding, and is subject to confirmation by the court. It can serve just to "get the ball rolling" so to speak.
You might ask the listing agent if that offer has just been submitted, or if it has actually been confirmed/accepted by the court.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

That said, in many instances/jurisdictions an accepted offer may not be binding, and is subject to confirmation by the court. It can serve just to "get the ball rolling" so to speak.

Brother could be selling the family home before mom's family entire 50/50% probate between two kids has been settled.

Your offer accepted in the meantime and finalized in writing.
Done deal?
Not by a long shot.

Sister now correctly claims crackhead brother unilaterally sold other mutual property which should have been split fairly with her, such as the car and silverware.
And (more importantly to you), that the property price was unilaterally undervalued for a quick sale and should be re-listed at market value.
Judge agrees.
Sale nullified.

(Just making this stuff up, but I'm sure it's probably already happened in the legal system whether in the hundreds or millions).

[MRM]

Originally Posted by fintstone

The law regarding real estate transactions does vary state to state. It is wise to get an agreement with your agent in place early on to prevent confusion. Here is Minnesota's:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=82&view=chapter

The only houses I have bought in NC was without any realtor. If you buy a "for sale by owner" or convince someone to sell their home to you without it being listed...all you need is a lawyer to draw up the documents...or a closing company if you need a loan, title search, etc..

Denis has considerable resources he could call on in Minnesota if he really needed help. He's just asking for informal advice and opinions for the brain trust and he's not the kind of guy who is going to stiff a realtor who works with him. Not that you suggested that, Fint, but others did.

[speeder]

Not sure any of them would help me w this, Mike. Anyways, I'm saving those favors for when I kill someone and need a pardon.

[MRM]

Aw shucks Denis. If you ever kill a man who needs killin', I'll be happy to help you out.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by MRM

Aw shucks Denis. If you ever kill a man who needs killin', I'll be happy to help you out.

Please don't offer your "hit man" services here on a public.....oh wait..

Nevermind....

Whew...thought MY "go to guy" for legal advice was headin' to the slammer....carry on!!!