Yawn - Another Pit Bull Thread

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Jims5543

100% agree it is up to humans.

In Dade county Humans passed laws that outright ban ownership of the breed in the county. That in my opinion is a good start.

Humans at home Insurance companies will deny coverage if you tell them you have a pit in your house.

Humans that manage apartment complexes have a no pit bull policy.

Humans at the county we live in have a no pit bull rule at dog parks.

Humans that own dog day cares have a no pitbull policy.

Another thing humans can do, not own them, they are not cool, they are dangerous animals.

You mentioned assault weapons in a post above, in my opinion owning a Pit is akin to loading a AR-15 the tossing it on your couch then hoping nothing goes wrong with a house full of kids.

My weapons are all locked in a safe.

I would never consider owning a dog that if it has a bad day someone can end up dead.

Here is a story of another human that sucks, he owns a pitbull that alone makes him suck, what makes him suck more is his pitbull was running loose at 6:00 this morning.

All I could think of was how defenseless I was against this thing if it decided to go for our dog and to be honest it was sketchy as hell. It kept charging our dog.

Our dog loves all dogs and everyone, her head was down, ears back and tail between her legs through the entire encounter, I never seen her submit like that before.

All that said, just ordered a cattle prod and tazer off of amazon. I guess its time to get off my ass and visit the sheriff and get my CCW application in too. I am still pretty pissed that a pit was loose in my neighborhood this morning. We were going to trap it in our side yard after it followed us all the way to our house so we could have animal control come get it, it left before we could entice it in that yard.

It did chase my neighbor across the street back into her house along with her Lab puppy before it left.

So....when the owner of that loose Pit is found.....he gets a year in jail plus a hefty fine?

My brother lives in Lake Worth...and they have a Pit Bull rescue....I wonder what the laws are in Palm Beach County regarding Pit Bull ownership?

[Baz]

My brother's family dog....a rescue Pit. Is she a ticking time bomb?

[crb07]

Dade County does not enforce the no Pit Bull law. South Florida is full of these dogs. I live in Lauderdale. There are 7 houses on my street. 3 neighbors have been attacked by pits while walking thier dogs. City of Ft. Lauderdale will not send police if you call 911, only animal control and an ambulance if you need one.
2 of the pits were put down. The 3rd could not be found, owner put it at a friends or something.

[crb07]

Baz, lots of stories like your brother. For me it is a gamble not worth taking. Especially if there are kids around. I just don't get the attraction people have for these dogs.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by crb07

Baz, lots of stories like your brother. For me it is a gamble not worth taking. Especially if there are kids around. I just don't get the attraction people have for these dogs.

Something should be done to negligent owners.....you just said the current laws are not being enforced. That sounds like a first step right there.....how do we fix that?

I think we can all agree that better education and training would also help.

As a side note - I've been very critical of our mainstream media choosing coverage of stuff that only helps with ratings. Similar to politicians setting priorities on what helps them get re-elected.

Both these entities are guilty in general of not serving the public's best interest. Not trying to side track the thread....but so much more *could* be done about educating the folks on dog ownership in general and this breed (and others) specifically.

Also - as Tobra pointed out...there are many other breeds who have the potential to cause harm to our populace. All the emphasis on this Pit breed creates a defensive stance from Pit owners, which doesn't help.

The bottom line seems to be the same old story...the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Gotta hold humans accountable for all they are NOT doing to help alleviate any issues.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by crb07

Baz, lots of stories like your brother. For me it is a gamble not worth taking. Especially if there are kids around. I just don't get the attraction people have for these dogs.

I would also applaud the fact that you are making intelligent decisions on what breed to bring into your home.

Dog ownership is not for just anyone...and certainly choosing the right dog is just as big a decision.

[javadog]

Most people that you would consider describing as attracted to a pitbull are not the types of people that should own them. I'd make the further case that they shouldn't have a dog. Because they probably desire to own a dog for all of the wrong reasons.

I wouldn't suggest a pitbull be brought into any house that has young children, just as I would not suggest that any large dog be brought into a house with young children.

Some of us own dogs because we feel that it is appropriate to find homes for rescue dogs. All of the dogs that I have ever owned as an adult have been rescues. Most've been boxers, but I do have one pitbull. I gave him a home because I knew that I could provide a better home for him than 99% of all of the other choices that were available. He's been a great dog and I wouldn't hesitate to own another. It's not that I'm looking to do so, it's just that I would not shirk from the responsibility.

Dogs are not for everyone. Frankly, I think more than half of the people around them shouldn't own them. But I can say the same thing about children. I think many, many children that are born into this world live in families/homes that are ill-suited to care for them. I speak not just of the United States, but the world as a whole. I can also say that I'm completely without power to solve either of those problems, so I do my part and don't worry about the rest.

[Baz]

Agree and well said, Javadog.....thanks for giving your pups a home!

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by Baz

My brother's family dog....a rescue Pit. Is she a ticking time bomb?

All living creatures are ticking time bombs. Will they ever go off...who knows. Trigger points can manifest due to factors of health, environment, and age. I have known dogs that started as mellow, tender, family pets but somewhere along the way changed into a less tolerant creature. The resulting risk directly correlates into the physical characteristics on the animal. I have never owned a Pit but have owned a GSD. Had Ryker flipped out one day I would have been hard pressed to stop it. Too much risk for me.

Again I agree with forcing insurance on owners and enforcing criminal penalties/time for those whose dogs injure others.

[Jims5543]

Sorry, I am pretty farking pissed off today after dealing with 2 loose pit bulls in the last week.

Blame the owners? Yeah blame the breed.

Every other loose dog I encounter, I am not in fear of my life, and fear serious injury, 90% of the time, I end of meeting a good boy that I am not worried about and just wants pets.

I am a dog lover and have always had dogs around me my entire life. I have many hours spent in training sessions for me with my dogs in attendance. Even my current mutt has been through an AKC Puppy training course. Who are we kidding, anyone who knows anything about dog training knows dog training is 80% human training. Teaching them how to interact with the dog in order to get the behavior you desire.

My first pit bull encounter was on long Island in the late 70's I was riding my mini bike when a neighbors pit ran out of his yard and attacked me and the bike. I jumped off and ran up a tree, the Mini bike ended up with a popped tire after the Pit decided it was OK to attack since it could not get me.

I learned at a young age to not trust the breed.



I should stop there, because Pits are so cute.

[Tobra]

In reading through this thread, it has become even more clear that the issue is with the owners.

I wonder how many of those attacks attributed to pit bulls are dogs from reputable breeders owned by responsible people, and how many are actually full blooded pit bulls.

What is the cutoff for destruction of the animal? 5%, 25%, 50% pit bull genes, or does it just have to look like it?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yes, and what personality type is disproportionately attracted to this breed?

There’s your problem. The breed was created to be viscous, large, intimidating and dangerous. Those qualities typically attract those sorts of people, be they dogs, vehicles, boats, guns, whatever.

Pit Bulls have a magnetic effect on not-too-bright, overly-aggressive, macho-man, wanna-be-badass types. Those types don’t tend to put too much value on education and proper training (either for humans or animals).

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

In reading through this thread, it has become even more clear that the issue is with the owners.

I wonder how many of those attacks attributed to pit bulls are dogs from reputable breeders owned by responsible people, and how many are actually full blooded pit bulls.

What is the cutoff for destruction of the animal? 5%, 25%, 50% pit bull genes, or does it just have to look like it?

I'm a Lab lover at heart . Got bit 1/4" from my eye when I was around 5 yrs old by a Collie...a couple of years later, I was the only one capabable of feeding him when owners were on vacation...not a vicuous dangerous dog though. I raised and trained an alpha Doberman as a teen...been around about ten of them. 'Bout the same number of true German Shepard police dogs....none were a threat. The two chows, I mentioned earlier, one needed to be put down. As far as the Pit Bulls, I've been intimately involved with 17 of 'em, one pure, the others 50%...since they were weeks old....I loved every single one....not quite half were removed from society due to their unpredictable, sudden, vicious attacks on other members of their pack...I couldn't handle them when they "went nutz", nor could my friend, and his wife was hurt pretty badly on two occasions....they had no recourse for those....the remainder did NOT have that unpredictable aggressive streak I speak of. And I know dogs, have read plenty in addition to having no fear and knowing how dogs behave....as much as a human can imo. I realize no one on this thread is gonna change their mind, I certainly won't, because I've learned a lot the past ten years....it is what it is.
I'm still involved with two 50% mixes....both are alpha males....one is a sweetie, the other a " ticking time bomb" that I love dearly however. A baby will soon become a visitor to that house in a few months, a first....what will happen....I dunno? I just know that I won't take chances with other innocent pets or small children with PBs...I just won't. Sounds like you've got a gentle giant Toby....I remember the pic of him on the sofa with your grandson ....hope he never exhibits the aggressive traits I've seen firsthand though. Bowing out of this thread now....best to all.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Baz

My brother's family dog....a rescue Pit. Is she a ticking time bomb?

Baz, I love dogs and all animals. I think that's kind of the definition of a PB as a ticking bomb. They look sweet and harmless until they aren't.

The problem is that if (some are sweet and gentle forever and never snap) they snap, they are so strong and bred/built for strength and destruction, that it's nearly impossible to stop bad things from happening if they've already gotten their teeth into someone or another animal.

Guns don't fire themselves, but a dog does have their own mind and their own will and we as humans can't really completely understand them or guaranty control of them.

Owning a PB is probably not much different from having a chimpanzee as a pet or some sort of big cat (ok, that is an order of magnitude worse than a PB, but it's the same kind of thing).

[javadog]

If you own a dog and do not feel like it is your job to control them at all times, or if you think that you can't control them at all times, then you don't have any understanding of dog behavior. Not only can you be in charge of a dog, you should be in charge of a dog, and the dog will be happier if you are. Dogs need to have a place in the pack and they need to know their place. They need constant reinforcement of that. Watch two dogs sometime and notice which one is higher in the pecking order and what they do to the other dog to reinforce that. It starts when they get up, it ends when they go to bed, and it's happening all day long.

A dog's energy level is what you need to watch. They are constantly watching that aspect of you, and your energy level and intentions are easily read by a dog, and they will take their cues from you, if you are the leader. If you are not the leader, they will still be affected by how they read your energy level and your intentions. Your voice commands to them are so much noise, they don't care about the words, they care about the delivery.

Just about everything that has been expressed in this thread about a pitbull is wrong. They were never bred to kill, they don't have the strongest bites in the dog world, they don't lock onto prey any differently from any other dog, they're not more unpredictable than any other dog. Up until about forty years ago, nobody paid that much attention to a pit bull. Other breeds were the "problem" dogs. Gangbangers and drug dealers changed the perception of the pitbull in our society and started raising dogs in a very inhumane way. That's the aspect that needs to be changed.

Be careful when you look at dog bite statistics. The frequency of bites attributed to a particular breed may seem at first glance to be indicative of the fact that the breed is the determinute factor in a dog bite. Studies have shown that breed is not a factor. You have to break down the causes of each incident to determine what really is at play. I can tell you the answers will revolve around the ownership of the dog. I encourage you to actually read the studies.

[javadog]

Here is a very simple graphic that breaks down some of the misinformation about pitbulls:

https://www.1800petmeds.com/education/pit-bull-facts-and-myths.htm

There are other, more scholarly studies out there that you can view if you want to dig a little deeper into it.

[javadog]

Here's one you can read if you want to get deeper into the issue:

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/full/10.2460/javma.243.12.1726

[KFC911]

JR, you have typed nothing that I haven't known and practiced for decades...it's second nature for me....and probably you too and I understand completely...maybe even moreso than you do . We'll just have to disagree...for all you (or I for that matter) know, the PBs I've experience might not be "wired correctly"....but that doesn't matter, nor do your condescending projections imo. If it takes a Cesesr Milan to safely own "some" dogs, then they don't belong in the mix of other pack animals...be it other pets or children. I will not change my view....

The only mistake my friends made is taking in a lovable, tiny PB at less than ten weeks old....a rescue fwiw. It just sucks to think about what they've endured....

[javadog]

I'm sorry if you perceive my comments as condescending. I don't mean them that way, but the facts are the facts. I do sometimes feel compelled to speak up when people are so adamant about pushing a false narrative.

I don't know what happened with your friends, but my intuition tells me they don't really understand dog behavior. Few people do and problems can arise when you bring a dog into a pack that has a higher energy level and more dominant nature then the other dogs and the dogs are left to sort out the pecking order on their own. In my own case when my pitbull arrived as a young dog, it was brought into a house with two older dogs. It started out as the bottom dog in the pecking order but soon rose to the top. That required adjustments of both of the other dogs. Sometimes that can be challenging.

[KFC911]

My friends are just average dog owners...have always had 2 or 3. They do not have the knowledge or dawg skills you or I possess....that is a fact. I've taught them a lot, particularly the wife, but....

No personal offense taken fwiw...this thread won't change anyone's mind....your posts have truth and validity...as do mine