A thought on pop warner and head injuries

[berettafan]

Read a story about an 11yo who suffered a serious brain injury playing football. Football family. The kid was gonna be a star, etc etc. Now he can only handle 1 hr a day of school, has outbursts of rage and other very sad and apparently long lasting issues.

The standard response is all sports/outdoor activities have risk but look at how small a % are truly injured. after two years of football my conclusion is the general attitude amongst football dads/coaches is that women need to shut up and let the boys become men on the field. they played football, their daddy played football and so on.

I happen to think physical contact like football is likely effective in giving kids the confidence to not be afraid of the class bully. They get punched, kicked and thrown around.

Anyways here's the thought that hit me regarding the likelihood of injury:

Maybe 20% of the kids on the field are actually playing football. The rest are just going through the motions for a variety of reasons (scared, weak, just want the jersey, just want to be around friends, whatever). It's these 20% and the kids opposite them who are really in danger of hard impacts.

This would seem to take the 'look how few are seriously injured' and counter it with 'if your kid plays hard like he's supposed to the likelihood of serious injury is probably much higher'.

Whaddya think?

[Arizona_928]

I played a high school game where a RB got to the line stood straight up and got clocked by a line backer. The kid was knocked out and ended up being taken away by air ambulance. Kid never finished the season. He seemed fine after, but I doubt he had any long term damage.

As for head injuries. The dangerous part is the multiple concussions in a short period of time. the old style Riddell helmets are crap, and I would recommend one of the newer ones ment to combat concussions. Also, any school program should have an athletic trainer at the school full time. I have read of kids getting a concussion during practice during the week (with no athletic trainer to stop the kid from playing), and on Friday night receive a second concussion and dying.

All in all, let the kids play. Anything in life worth doing involves an element of risk.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

All in all, let the kids play. Anything in life worth doing involves an element of risk.

To a certain extent, I agree.

I played HS football in the Pleistocene Era when the helmets were really, really bad and a concussion was dealt with by using smelling salts and counting fingers.



Enormously stupid. I can remember two very specific concussive episodes in four years of HSF. Missed two plays each time. Probably explains a lot

Even though I am not a fan of tackle football before the age of 12 (I think most kids would be much better served playing organized flag football) there are ways to lessen the risk:

- Interview the coach(es).
- Are they trained in some of the newer techniques (Play Safe, etc...even though many think it is a crock, I don't)
- Insist on the best equipment available
- Does the league have emergency equipment, EMT's on site during games,
- etc.

Let'em play smart.

[Laneco]

At a car event, I met a young man and his father whose lives have been completely changed by football. Not going to use any names, as I believe the father is a Pelican. The young man had a concussion and (if memory serves) wound up getting another one. The effect was devastating and permanent. No speech, could not walk, etc. All skills to be slowly relearned. He will never be the same.

At the time I met these two, our son was playing pop warner and not really enjoying it. We finished out the few weeks of the season and called it quits. Just had a bad, bad feeling about it...

edit - found this after I posted, Pop Warner specific regarding the later long term damage issue Pop Warner lawsuit: CTE in youth football on trial | SI.com

angela

[ckelly78z]

My son just finished his senior football season (got all county accolades, and plenty of praise from the coaches and fans). He had played every year since the third grade peewee games and enjoyed it for the most part. The last few years, he played his heart out, and was making more tackles than the whole rest of the team combined, and this year just figured out that if no one else seemed to care, why should he, (the team went 0-10, so no trophies, or recognition).

I don't think the losing record broke his spirit, I think it was the other lazy kids out there going through the motions, that all seemed to get hurt MORE than he did, (he played for a small school every offensive, and defensive play of every game except for special teams).

I think maybe it's the unprepared, lazy, out of shape kids that are playing half heartedly that are the ones in the most danger from the studs who want to plow through them.

[sammyg2]

I played organized football from the age of 7 or 8 up to age 18.

All this talk of serious head injuries is a new thing and it has an agenda.

Sure kids got their bells rung back then, but they also busted their heads open on the swing as school or jumping from the ladder on the jungle-jim or riding their bikes.

Hell back when they invented the game of football they didn't have helmets. Later they wore leather helmets with no pads. Were they really that much tougher than people today? Sounds like it.

We could bubble-wrap our kinds and put them in sealed containers to keep em safe and complete the pussification of America, or we could tone down our knee-jerks to sensationalized news stories intended for the easily-influenced.



But sammy I heard of one time when this one guy ..... BAH!

I haven't!

[jyl]

Of course, there are plenty of sports that give kids experience in hard work, leadership, teamwork, physical fitness, etc - other than (American style) football.

What's so special about football?

[Joe Bob]

NFHS rules and the refs take tackling techniques seriously and take measures to enforce the new rules. However, there are still concussions....

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Hell back when they invented the game of football they didn't have helmets. Later they wore leather helmets with no pads. Were they really that much tougher than people today? Sounds like it.

Helmets are really part of the problem. I remember the first time I wore an "air helmet" my senior year in HS. Wow. I started sticking my head in places I would not have before with the suspension helmet because it didn't hurt with the new helmet. A lot of "technique" went out of tackling and being tackled for me.

I support football at all levels. It is personal choice and I support the sport wholeheartedly.

Just be smart and be absolutely sure your kid really wants to play.

[tadd]

I think there are a lot of parallels in motor racing. Look at the cars from the 60/70s we are all in love with... 906, 917, ect... even look at the street 911 itself. There isn't much there. When people crashed hard, they tended to die. So folks didn't race like asshats pushing others around.

Now days (looking at you nascar), the safety equipment is so good, you can walk away from Armageddon. I think that drives folks to 'adjust the level of prudent' and race much more aggressively. This then becomes the 'new normal'. Wife puts it best...she's a critical care nurse for 30 years. Todays med surge patient was yesterdays critical care and todays critical care was yesterdays dead.

IMHO, same with young folks football (and to an extent pro). Better equipment allows a player to hit harder for longer. You don't have to maintain a reserve to make the whole game. Like racing distance events. The engineering is so good anymore its a 24 hour sprint. This level then becomes ingrained as 'what's normal' and everything is amped up.

Going helmetless has been discussed before...so that folks think and are more careful about what they do/try.

https://thinkprogress.org/could-getting-rid-of-helmets-actually-make-football-safer-75393ffe5c32#.v6xn7ps6t

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ban-helmets-during-practice-to-make-football-safer/2016/04/22/f72f7d2c-0628-11e6-b283-e79d81c63c1b_story.html?utm_term=.a63910b5c800

Current, former players suggest doing away with football helmets | NFL.com

[berettafan]

I think there is no question the dangers are real.

my point is I think the serious dangers exist with a small percentage of the overall football population. the non athletic kids just don't move fast, never get the ball and just sorta exist on the field while the game goes on around them. the aggressive and good players who know how to read a play and get a good head of steam on before contact are, I suspect, at far greater risk than the pudgy lazy kids who couldn't handle the running of soccer.

IOW those that are saying 'my kid won't get hurt, he's good' might just be the parents most likely to be wrong.

[berettafan]

one thing that is without question in my mind is the coaches and officials know exactly what people want to hear when questioned about safety and parrot it as needed...even though they don't subscribe to it.

[Holger]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Maybe 20% of the kids on the field are actually playing football. The rest are just going through the motions for a variety of reasons (scared, weak, just want the jersey, just want to be around friends, whatever). It's these 20% and the kids opposite them who are really in danger of hard impacts.

The 20% will do fine, because they are focused on what they do.
It is the 80% that is in danger.
Because not focusing and not using your muscles and tension in a good way will hurt you when getting hit. Not focusing means you dont know where the tackle will come from. Not using the muscles and tension will throw you around like a doll.
I play hockey and not holding against a tackle hurts a lot.

[berettafan]

for broken arms, wind knocked out of them....yes I agree.

but not so sure on brain injuries.

[1990C4S]

Improving equipment is like building more lanes on a crowded highway.

More lanes and less traffic make more people drive and traffic increases again. Better equipment in contact sports leads to harder hits at higher speeds. Hockey, football, lacrosse.

The 'solutions' don't solve the problems, they exacerbate them.

[VINMAN]

I always played hockey, and as a goaltender. When I started out we still were using the flat facemasks, which hurt like a mother when you got hit. Once we went to full masks with cages, throat protectors, full chest and arm protection, it opened up a whole new world. I went from always being slightly fearful of getting hit, to practically being fearless. So yeah, better equipment usually means taking bigger risks.

.

[Crowbob]

In my high school years, I woke up one morning in late summer and couldn't move. No, I wasn't paralyzed. Every muscle in my body hurt so bad I needed help getting to the bathroom.

'What is wrong with me, mom?'

She explained that I had gotten knocked out at football practice the day before. I had NO recollection of it.

In fact, I had no recollection of the entire three days prior. My buddies on the team described what happened; not a huge impact but my short-term memory was totally shot. I'd ask the same question over and over. I got dropped off at home and went directly to bed, apparently.

No long term effects term effects term effects.

In my high school years, I woke up one morning in late summer...



I would not let my son play high school football.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Holger

The 20% will do fine, because they are focused on what they do.
It is the 80% that is in danger.
Because not focusing and not using your muscles and tension in a good way will hurt you when getting hit. Not focusing means you dont know where the tackle will come from. Not using the muscles and tension will throw you around like a doll.
I play hockey and not holding against a tackle hurts a lot.

Yup. Typically the kids who are engaged are doing the hitting. It's the ones who check out that get plastered.

Originally Posted by Crowbob

In my high school years, I woke up one morning in late summer and couldn't move. No, I wasn't paralyzed. Every muscle in my body hurt so bad I needed help getting to the bathroom.

'What is wrong with me, mom?'

She explained that I had gotten knocked out at football practice the day before. I had NO recollection of it.

In fact, I had no recollection of the entire three days prior. My buddies on the team described what happened; not a huge impact but my short-term memory was totally shot. I'd ask the same question over and over. I got dropped off at home and went directly to bed, apparently.

No long term effects term effects term effects.

In my high school years, I woke up one morning in late summer...



I would not let my son play high school football.

I did a number of dangerous things as a teen, none of which involved sports. I knew a number of teens that died in car accidents. My oldest is 12 and has been playing some form of football (and every other sport) since he was 4. I am exponentially more scared of him driving than playing football. I floated through high school not involved in any activity except drinking heavily, in my opinion the pros of sports significantly outweigh the cons. Oh yeah, and despite never planning tackle football I can recall at least four incidents in my life where I am fairly certain I had a concussion.

[jyl]

I don't think it makes much sense for little kids to slam into each other head first at full speed.

How many of you would encourage your 8 year old to take up boxing?

This NFL player, and others, say football is no less dangerous than boxing. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/news/nfl--former-nfl-player-ray-edwards--boxing-is-safer-than-football-152349231.html?client=safari

[Joe Bob]

They are NOT supposed to, it's against the rules. If they do it, they have been taught wrong.