What constitutes an alcoholic?

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Never ask a heavy drinker if you drink too much. Its like asking the tobacco industry if smoking is bad for your health. Your odds of getting an objective answer is not too good.

Or asking a barber if you need a haircut.

If my wife has one drink like a Tom Collins she gets red faced and woozy. Wine just gives her a headache. She will have a beer with a slice of pizza on occasion. I have never know her to have more than one drink.

My dad was an Air Force pilot. He admitted the best part of being a pilot was at the end of a mission, head to the officers club and have some drinks and enjoy the comrade of the crew. He said delivering a new supply of beer to Christmas Island or Pango Pango guaranteed a good night of guys stationed there to be buying his drinks. When he was 51 he walked down the hall to pee and looked in the full length mirror and wondered who they old man was. He checked himself into rehab a few days later. He said he remembered that last drink and said goodby old friend and put the glass down.

He almost died going through rehab. The doctors did not think he would make it. He did and was sober for 32 years before he died.

I think of all that sometime when I have a beer. I have not been drunk in decades. I have skipped a week many times and I miss beer like missing a good steak or seafood. I never feel different physically.

[Joe Bob]

Best decision I ever made, my liver and family salute me....

[kach22i]

Just wanted to note, that for anyone under the delusion that drinking is "manly", please read this article.

Manly men have muscles, don't they?

Alcohol And Bodybuilding - Do They Mix?
Alcohol And Bodybuilding - Do They Mix?

At the most intoxicated state, testosterone levels had dropped to an average of 25% lower.

Somewhere I read about a study involving some college sports team, think it was rugby. They split the team into two groups, one was allowed to drink the normal college amount, and binge drink on the weekends. The other group was zero to light drinking on weekends, a couple of drinks - moderate.

The binge drinking group trailed behind the moderate group 20-40% in muscle growth. They did the same workouts, they just got different results and benefits from it because of the body chemistry, blood sugar and hormone level issues.

This also dealt with human growth hormones and healing or muscle recovery times.

I researched this topic after the guy across the street told me his doctor told him to stop drinking or his leg would never heal after getting hit by a car while on his bicycle.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

....

He almost died going through rehab. The doctors did not think he would make it. He did and was sober for 32 years before he died.

....

Alcohol is the only substance, where if one is "physically addicted", that going cold turkey can kill you. Fortunately (or not), most of us have psychological addictions....

Quitin' is easy...not starting back again is that big azz monkey many can't get rid of

I've used and abused a bunch of crap....fortunately, I don't have that "addictive gene/personality"... pure luck. I can simply say "no mas" and stick to it.... some folks need professional help, and there is not a damn thing wrong with that either....

[Evans, Marv]

I'm wishing those of you who have difficulties managing substances the best of luck. As a teenager and young guy I drank, partied, smoked some weed, did some chemicals and had a good time. But I never felt attracted to any of it, so I guess I'm lucky in that respect. Some of my room mates in college would comment I never got loaded with them, and I'd tell them I just had other things to do. I have a beer once in a while and sip on a small glass of Fireball/scotch/bourbon maybe once or twice a week while on here mostly. At this age I feel crappy if I have more than that but really don't desire more. I can't imagine the struggle some go/are going through, but I wish you the best. There seem to be good people here who potentially are having some hard times.

[Fast Freddy 944]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

The Big Book says if you can't stop once started or you can't choose to go a day successfully without drinking you are an alcoholic.

I have been to AA across the decades a half dozen times. Sober for a year or more on at least one occasion.

I don't black out, but I have occasionally if drinking strong beer or wine. Can count on one/two many fingered hand(s) if the entire collection is embraced. The exception, but I literally do not remember passages of the night before.

Based on history, I like 8 to twelve beers a day. However, easy not to drink at all if I feel hung over/lethargic. If anyone remembers my thread about ceasing Adderal (stimulant) for ADD, this is the reason for my question. I am now way more aware of my body reactions to alcohol, crappy food with big salt, any lack of sleep, etc.

Never pissed on myself, puked in my sleep except twice as a kid (barfing from "shooting" beers).

I know the answer, unfortunately.

What makes a lush? That's simple, if your are pouring beer in your fruit loops you are a lush, if instead of milk, juice water as a drink you use booze you are a lush, if your liver looks pickled you are a lush, if you have the taste for the grape or the hopps you are a lush.....

It don't get no more simpler hoss....

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Denis, if you want the thread to be helpful like you say then perhaps you could refrain from being the self-appointed morality moderator for it.

Morality has nothing to do with it. Alcoholism is not a moral issue, though it's commonly misunderstood as one by people who don't understand it.

My criticism of this guy isn't about morality, it's about common sense. I fully understand the tendency of people to try to joke about things that make them uncomfortable and lots of people get really squirrelly around this subject. Usually because it hits a little too close to home. But to jump on a thread where a guy is all but screaming out for help w his drinking and tell him that he just polished off a bottle, how jolly he feels, etc., is stupid beyond belief. It's analogous to telling someone on a bridge to jump, and having a laugh about it.

He doesn't strike me as immoral, just kind of an idiot.

[speeder]

OTOH, he was probably schitfaced after drinking the bottle before posting, so maybe he should get a pass.

[scottmandue]

I have been in and out of AA meetings and have met a lot nice people there and it works for a lot of people.
Unfortunately it didn't work for me.
I got into a group that deals with addictions, it works for me to get away from the stigma of 'being an Alcoholic' and share with people who struggle with drugs/alcohol/sex addiction/co-dependency, etc.
Finding a good counselor to talk to helps too.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by speeder

Morality has nothing to do with it. Alcoholism is not a moral issue, though it's commonly misunderstood as one by people who don't understand it.

My criticism of this guy isn't about morality, it's about common sense. I fully understand the tendency of people to try to joke about things that make them uncomfortable and lots of people get really squirrelly around this subject. Usually because it hits a little too close to home. But to jump on a thread where a guy is all but screaming out for help w his drinking and tell him that he just polished off a bottle, how jolly he feels, etc., is stupid beyond belief. It's analogous to telling someone on a bridge to jump, and having a laugh about it.

He doesn't strike me as immoral, just kind of an idiot.

That's cool. All I'm saying is you're not elevating the thread either.
Crap, neither am I! We're domed.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Gogar

..
Crap, neither am I! We're domed.

You disspeeled carp

[2porscheguy]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Research has shown that men who have no more than 4 drinks per day AND no more than 14 per week are at low risk for problems. Everyone is different - different tolerance levels and different drinking patterns, but statistically you are on the edge of putting yourself at risk.

I didn't want to hijack Bob's thread here but...ya....duly noted WD! I probably needed to hear that....

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Research has shown that men who have no more than 4 drinks per day AND no more than 14 per week are at low risk for problems. Everyone is different - different tolerance levels and different drinking patterns, but statistically you are on the edge of putting yourself at risk.

This is one thing that bugs me, the theory that an addictive behavior can be mathematically calculated... as if you have 'X' number of drinks in 'Y' amount of time you are an alcoholic.

A 300 pound linebacker can probably consume more booze than a 80 pound cheerleader

By the standards of most tests many college students are alcoholic.

Let me reiterate AA is a great program and it works for a lot of people so it is a good place to start and only cost a dollar when they pass the hat, it is worth a try when you consider the consequences.

It does help a LOT to talk to other people and find out you are not the only one struggling.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

....

By the standards of most tests many college students are alcoholic.

..

On my campus decades ago....it was a requirement

Seriously....times change, we didn't have to watch "Animal House"... we lived it. A trip to the beach required one case per person per day...and we'd still run out . It now takes me a year to consume a college weekend's supply.
We were all athletic back then....had to be in shape to do as we did. Out of ten or so close college buddies....all have have had pretty successful lives with no long lasting effects, except one. Most changed....he couldn't, and last I heard was in some sort of program...

Still waiting for Bob...

Though we may joke and talk about the good ol' daze....this is serious business for many, and I hope that all who need help, realize it, and seek it until you find a way out.

Best to all...

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by KC911

On my campus decades ago....it was a requirement

Still waiting for Bob...

Though we may joke and talk about the good ol' daze....this is serious business for many, and I hope that all who need help, realize it, and seek it until you find a way out.

Best to all...

Or for me it was being a construction worker... beer at lunch and after work was the norm, but as you say I was in much better shape back then (Hauling tool boxes and ladders up two flights of stairs will do that for you).

I do take this seriously, I have lost a brother and two close friend due to long term alcohol and drug use.

However if the AA program doesn't work for you keep looking, there are other options (a good psychologist if you medical insurance covers it) or many hospitals and churches have programs for this sort of thing.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by speeder

Well, if that's what you were doing, it was even stupider than I thought. Showing an alcoholic "what drinking in an orderly manner is all about"?

Yeah, that's what you did there. Idiot.

Denis, a cream puff like you from a very sheltered existence wouldn't have the first clue about alcoholism. As per my earlier post I grew up with a father who used to beat the living daylights out of me and spend the rest of his drunken day yelling at me and the rest of family. So me making light of a situation; and showing there is a happy medium, such as Christmas drinking is NOT being an idiot - merry Christmas.

[RKDinOKC]

My half-sister is 1/4 American Indian. After her and her husband had 2 children they adopted 2 children that were full blooded American Indians. They got them each as very young babies. Both had problems because their parents were alcoholics. The problems were psychological. They are from difference tribes and are not related.

The girl was lucky and grew of her problems in a couple of years. After HS she joined the Navy. decided it was not for her and drank herself into a medical discharge because she was Indian. After she got out she hasn't touched the stuff.

Her brother was not so lucky. He has had problems since day one and still does. Has has alcohol abuse problems since he was a teen. In his 40's now, he is still goes on binges and puts himself in rehab for alcohol abuse.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

This is one thing that bugs me, the theory that an addictive behavior can be mathematically calculated... as if you have 'X' number of drinks in 'Y' amount of time you are an alcoholic.

.

As a quote of me preceded this statement i assume you are referring to my posts, and badly misunderstanding them. In numerous studies of thousands of people the correlation between levels of alcohol use and the level of alcohol related personal problems a drinker experiences was quantified. The conclusions of those studies rejected the use of the binary term " alcoholic" and instead apply the term "Alcohol use disorder" to the range of usage levels and the range of associated life complications an alcohol user may experience. They specifically reject the idea that if a person has x number of drinks he is an alcoholic.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by RKDinOKC

their parents were alcoholics. The problems were psychological.

Yep, there are alcoholics who only hurt themselves, and there are alcoholics who hurt others.

[Charles Freeborn]

My father was an alkie - dead at 57. His father, and a couple of uncles too.
It's not about how much as much as why. If it's more important than the rest of your life, such as kids, family, career and dreams (as it was with my dad) then what's the big mystery?
It's a choice - make it or shut up.