The universe is stranger than you could have thought

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Geneman

HERE IT IS.... ACTUALLY its 71.9+/- 2.7 KMS/sec/mparsec accurate to 3.8 percent. thats pretty impressive.... called the HOLICOW experiment... really !

https://phys.org/news/2017-01-cosmic-lenses-universe-expansion.html

The reason they gave the expansion velocity as a "distance" measurement is because it's a directly measurable data point, they can accurately calculate the expansion velocity by imaging the Lyman Alpha Forest in the spectroscopic images of the galaxies in those distant superclusters. That is a directly measurable thing. The Hubble Constant is what connects that expansion velocity to distance. However, as you mentioned, the Hubble Constant is still in flux, so the distance measurements would have an error as big as the Constant. It's more accurate to give "distance" as the expansion velocity.

Often if a paper wants to give distance measurements, they will specify the value of the Hubble Constant that they used (whether 72, or 73.4 or 75 or whatever).

[Crowbob]

It's difficult to forge an agreement between models?

This is news?

[JD159]

Looks like an Ostrich to me.

[Tervuren]

What's really strange, is there was a heavy metal album produced about this before we got this forum post.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

A cosmic fetus.

Just like 2001, Kubrick really was a visionary.

[berettafan]

I don't know what all this means but I'm glad you smart people are having fun and I'm also glad I'm not the only one who is lost in iTunes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

It is gravity. The Shapley Attractor is a well know, well modeled supercluster of galaxies, which creates a large gravitational well. Large enough to influence a significant fraction of the Universe...

This new "dipole repeller" is a lack of mass, possibly caused by the the initial quantum fluctuations that caused the overabundance of mass at the attractor? The quantum collapse of the Higgs field during the Big Bang could cause large high and low energy points as well as the well modeled filaments.

Until now, scientists assumed that a dense region of the universe is pulling us toward it, in the same way that gravity made Newton's apple fall to earth. The initial "prime suspect" was called the Great Attractor, a region of a half dozen rich clusters of galaxies 150 million lightyears from the Milky Way. Soon after, attention was drawn to an area of more than two dozen rich clusters, called the Shapley Concentration, which sits 600 million lightyears beyond the Great Attractor.

Now researchers led by Prof. Yehuda Hoffman at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem report that our galaxy is not only being pulled, but also pushed. In a new study in the forthcoming issue of Nature Astronomy, they describe a previously unknown, very large region in our extragalactic neighborhood. Largely devoid of galaxies, this void exerts a repelling force on our Local Group of galaxies.

"By 3-d mapping the flow of galaxies through space, we found that our Milky Way galaxy is speeding away from a large, previously unidentified region of low density. Because it repels rather than attracts, we call this region the Dipole Repeller," said Prof. Yehuda Hoffman. "In addition to being pulled towards the known Shapley Concentration, we are also being pushed away from the newly discovered Dipole Repeller. Thus it has become apparent that push and pull are of comparable importance at our location."

There is a pushing force from the dipole, i.e not gravity

[MBAtarga]

Okay, I'm looking at the map now. Where am I and where is the nearest exit?

[Fast Freddy 944]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Three different elements of the flow are presented: mapping of the velocity field is shown by means of streamlines (seeded randomly in the slice); red and grey surfaces present the knots and filaments of the V-web, respectively; and equi-gravitational potential (ϕ) surfaces are shown in green and yellow. The potential surfaces enclose the dipole repeller (in yellow) and the Shapley attractor (in green) that dominate the flow. The yellow arrow originates at our position and indicates the direction of the CMB dipole (galactic longitude l = 276°, galactic latitude b = 30°). The distance scale is given in units of km s−1.

That's pretty heavy. Well done! Scotty Warp speed!

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by nota

link to the nature article the chart is from

The dipole repeller : Nature Astronomy

Cool, thanks.

Followed one of the links in the article.

Figure 2: A 3D view of the velocity field.
Figure 2: A 3D view of the velocity field. : Nature Astronomy

It is shown here by means of the flow streamlines (in black–blue, left panel) and of the anti-flow (in yellow–red, right panel). Anti-flow is defined here by the negative (namely, the reverse) of the velocity field.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

There is a pushing force from the dipole, i.e not gravity

That is not exactly how I am reading that. It's poor terminology, what is correct is the idea that it is a negative gravitational potential region, which things will naturally flow away from. Gravity doesn't "pull" just as negative gravitational potential areas don't "push".

Think of it like a sand dune. At the top of the dune is a negative gravitational potential region (also it's unstable). At the bottom of the dune, in the valley between dunes, is a high positive gravitational potential region (and it's stable). Put a ball on top of that dune, and what happens? It's unstable, meaning any slight error in placement or any slight perturbation will make the ball roll away from the top. Is the top "pushing" the ball away? No, just as the bottom the the dune is not "pulling" the ball, the ball is traveling along the path of lowest energy between the negative gravitational potential zone towards a positive gravitational potential zone. Once it's there (at the bottom of the dune) it will stay there, since it's a stable location. Push the ball around a bit and it will naturally go back to the lowest point between dunes.


The Shapley Attractor is the bottom of a giant gravitational sand dune, while the "dipole" location is the top of the dune. Galaxies are naturally rolling down the dune towards the Attractor, away from the "repeller". There is no pushing or pulling involved, it's all based on Gravity as described in General Relativity.


The Shapley Attractor has been a known gravitational well for decades, but they haven't been able to do a good job of mapping the location of the "top of the dune". That's primarily what this report is. The modeling is to show that that location for a negative potential zone properly models the galactic cluster motions.



Edit: The quantum fluctuations I mentioned earlier are what created the "sand dunes" in the first place, the quivering quantum "foam" which collapsed into Higgs particles at the moment of the Big Bang were the initial distribution of "mass", which then led to the current distribution of "mass" in the Universe, which thereby creates the structure of spacetime, which is the "sand dunes".

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

That is not exactly how I am reading that. It's poor terminology, what is correct is the idea that it is a negative gravitational potential region, which things will naturally flow away from. Gravity doesn't "pull" just as negative gravitational potential areas don't "push".

Think of it like a sand dune. At the top of the dune is a negative gravitational potential region (also it's unstable). At the bottom of the dune, in the valley between dunes, is a high positive gravitational potential region (and it's stable). Put a ball on top of that dune, and what happens? It's unstable, meaning any slight error in placement or any slight perturbation will make the ball roll away from the top. Is the top "pushing" the ball away? No, just as the bottom the the dune is not "pulling" the ball, the ball is traveling along the path of lowest energy between the negative gravitational potential zone towards a positive gravitational potential zone. Once it's there (at the bottom of the dune) it will stay there, since it's a stable location. Push the ball around a bit and it will naturally go back to the lowest point between dunes.


The Shapley Attractor is the bottom of a giant gravitational sand dune, while the "dipole" location is the top of the dune. Galaxies are naturally rolling down the dune towards the Attractor, away from the "repeller". There is no pushing or pulling involved, it's all based on Gravity as described in General Relativity.


The Shapley Attractor has been a known gravitational well for decades, but they haven't been able to do a good job of mapping the location of the "top of the dune". That's primarily what this report is. The modeling is to show that that location for a negative potential zone properly models the galactic cluster motions.



Edit: The quantum fluctuations I mentioned earlier are what created the "sand dunes" in the first place, the quivering quantum "foam" which collapsed into Higgs particles at the moment of the Big Bang were the initial distribution of "mass", which then led to the current distribution of "mass" in the Universe, which thereby creates the structure of spacetime, which is the "sand dunes".

The only thing gravity does is pull mass separated by distance together, there is no known such thing as 'anti-gravity' that can push masses apart. the expansion of the Cosmos whether the primordial version or the current version does push but it does so isotropically in all directions w/o a favored one.

quantum fluctuations are ultra small scale energy fluctuations in space time that create ephemeral particles pairs(a particle and it's anti-particle) that usually annihilate each other in very short order, like bubbles in water that make foam, an individual bubble can appear and disappear but on average the amount of foam is a constant, quantum fluctuations are the source of Hawking radiation that causes a black hole to evaporate because if a the fluctuation creates a particle/anti-particle pair at the event horizon rather than annihilate one escapes taking mass & energy away leaving the other constrained to the black hole, the net effect is that the hole losses mass over time and will eventually evaporate.

Yes mass can bend and shape space time but the effect is always a pull never a push

[M.D. Holloway]

The universe is apparently only 2 dimensions. I don't like it! What happened to the idea it was 3, 4, 11 dimensions? This whole minimization movement is getting on my last nerve.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

The only thing gravity does is pull mass separated by distance together, there is no known such thing as 'anti-gravity' that can push masses apart. the expansion of the Cosmos whether the primordial version or the current version does push but it does so isotropically in all directions w/o a favored one.

quantum fluctuations are ultra small scale energy fluctuations in space time that create ephemeral particles pairs(a particle and it's anti-particle) that usually annihilate each other in very short order, like bubbles in water that make foam, an individual bubble can appear and disappear but on average the amount of foam is a constant, quantum fluctuations are the source of Hawking radiation that causes a black hole to evaporate because if a the fluctuation creates a particle/anti-particle pair at the event horizon rather than annihilate one escapes taking mass & energy away leaving the other constrained to the black hole, the net effect is that the hole losses mass over time and will eventually evaporate.

Yes mass can bend and shape space time but the effect is always a pull never a push

The singularity that created the Big Bang was a quantum foam of the Higgs field. That quantum structure was imprinted in the Universe as Higgs particles which created the underlying structure of space-time. You can see that structure when you look at the largest scales, it's the voids and filaments that the galactic clusters sit on:

(Stolen image):


You can see the Shapley Attractor, but more importantly is the filimentary structure. That is the quantum signature imprinted in the Universe.

Remember, when the Big Bang happened, there was lots of energy in very little space, so the quantum regime was realized. The quantum foam was the size of the entire Universe, inside that singularity. After inflation and then the normal expansion for the past 14 billion years, that quantum structure has spread to massive structures. These were the points of high energy, where "gravity" was strongest, so they were the stable valleys between the sand dunes (which are the voids).

We (the Local Group) are sliding down a sand dune towards the deepest gravity well. there is no pushing or pulling. You need to think of gravity as curvature of spacetime, not as a force reaching out and grabbing things. especially when dealing with Cosmology.

[ckissick]

Does this model provide added insight to the finding that 96% of the universe must be made up of dark energy and dark matter, to explain the accelerating expansion of the universe?

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

The singularity that created the Big Bang was a quantum foam of the Higgs field. That quantum structure was imprinted in the Universe as Higgs particles which created the underlying structure of space-time. You can see that structure when you look at the largest scales, it's the voids and filaments that the galactic clusters sit on:

(Stolen image):


You can see the Shapley Attractor, but more importantly is the filimentary structure. That is the quantum signature imprinted in the Universe.

Remember, when the Big Bang happened, there was lots of energy in very little space, so the quantum regime was realized. The quantum foam was the size of the entire Universe, inside that singularity. After inflation and then the normal expansion for the past 14 billion years, that quantum structure has spread to massive structures. These were the points of high energy, where "gravity" was strongest, so they were the stable valleys between the sand dunes (which are the voids).

We (the Local Group) are sliding down a sand dune towards the deepest gravity well. there is no pushing or pulling. You need to think of gravity as curvature of spacetime, not as a force reaching out and grabbing things. especially when dealing with Cosmology.

The bold underline is what is stunning about this report of Dr. Hoffman, his analysis indicates that there is pushing

[scottmandue]

My dogs breath smells like dog food!

[Crowbob]

The only shapely attractors I was ever familiar with were in the bar at closing time.

[Geneman]

"The only shapely attractors I was ever familiar with were in the bar at closing time"


And then after having succesfully attracted as paired matter, you might have gone looking for sand dunes to accomplish a big bang?

...

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

The only shapely attractors I was ever familiar with were in the bar at closing time.

I would postulate that the magnitude of the attractor was directly proportional to the amount of R3COH present in your system?