LiFePO4 Lithium Cat Battery - Head Scratcher

[slow&rusty]

Guys \ Gals - What a head scratcher! I've been contemplating a move to these Lithium batteries on my daily driven Mazda (which has a turbo Miata 1.6L engine) but on the fence.

On one hand I've read so many scary stories about these batteries exploding from even being on the correct trickle charger (over charged).

On the same hand I've heard some last from weeks to months and longevity is not quite there.

Many say its really still relegated for a track or weekend auto-X car not a daily driver.

The basic goal is to try some new technology and save 10 lbs from the AGM lightweight battery I currently use...but as three times the price is it worth it?

What says you?

Yasin

P.S: I found these pictures on the Subaru forums from a member that had two (2) Lithium battery failures in his car:
First battery:


Second battery:

[red-beard]

The batteries that explode are not LiFePo4. They are Lithium Cobalt Oxide(LiCoO2) or NMC or NCA.

LiFePo4 is the safest of the readily available batteries. That said, you need to buy a good quality battery with a good PCM (Protection circuit module). UL type testing is essential to getting a good quality, safe battery.

These guys make high quality LiFePo4 batteries. https://www.nexgenbattery.com/12-volt-battery

[Tervuren]

If you're worried, make sure you have a system that monitors voltage of each individual cell and controls charging and discharge cut off accordingly.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

If you're worried, make sure you have a system that monitors voltage of each individual cell and controls charging and discharge cut off accordingly.

A good PCM/BMS will not just monitor but will balance the cells. Most of the cheap batteries don't have a proper BMS. And constant voltage, lead acid charging circuits are NOT ideal for these batteries.

[berettafan]

no it is not worth it.

lipo is crazy unstable.

[wdfifteen]

Good info. I've been contemplating an Anti-Gravity battery for my Turboencabulator XLC.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by berettafan

no it is not worth it.

lipo is crazy unstable.

What are you talking about? Except for lithium titanate, it is the MOST stable lithium battery.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Good info. I've been contemplating an Anti-Gravity battery for my Turboencabulator XLC.

Grimsley rods are another worthy upgrade. Not as much power as the Tunis units, but far more stable and easier to install. A much higher quality product.

[berettafan]

google lipo explosion or lipo fire. long been an issue. RC people know all about it.

[stomachmonkey]

Saving 10 lbs on a DD?

It's a battery, non reciprocating weight.

You'll gain what, 1 HP?

You won't even notice it.

Hardly seems worth it.

Back off the all day buffet, drop some weight, same net plus you'll save money.

[cstreit]

First I was going to say if your cat needs batteries, you're doing it wrong.

...but in all seriousness - why? You'll spend 3x for the risk to save 10 lbs in a daily driver? I'm a gadget guy too, but this seems like you're fixated on having a piece of new tech without any real benefit...

Why not just go with a smaller AGM style.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Grimsley rods are another worthy upgrade. Not as much power as the Tunis units, but far more stable and easier to install. A much higher quality product.

Excellent! We've been looking for a high quality, stable rod.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by berettafan

google lipo explosion or lipo fire. long been an issue. RC people know all about it.

I personally use LiFePo4 batteriers for mobile applications. LiFePo4 is the safest regular lithium battery. You might be looking at Chinese junk, which I will not trust.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Saving 10 lbs on a DD?

It's a battery, non reciprocating weight.

You'll gain what, 1 HP?

You won't even notice it.

Hardly seems worth it.

Back off the all day buffet, drop some weight, same net plus you'll save money.

I'm surprised cars manufacturers are switching to LiFePo4 to save weight. The weight savings over a conventional battery is more like 40 pounds. The cost I expect is the issue. And the battery companies will not like the battery life, since they make money on replacements. A LifePo4 battery should last 10-20 years in an automotive starting application.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Excellent! We've been looking for a high quality, stable rod.

What are you using for an intake?

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by red-beard

A good PCM/BMS will not just monitor but will balance the cells. Most of the cheap batteries don't have a proper BMS. And constant voltage, lead acid charging circuits are NOT ideal for these batteries.

Perhaps I made some dangling modifiers; but that is what I referred to.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by berettafan

google lipo explosion or lipo fire. long been an issue. RC people know all about it.

I've been using them in my RC race cars without ever having had an issue.

My packs have an internal circuit cut off that trips on an individual cell hitting its limit. My charger plugs into a loom that provides charging power to each cell individually.

I'm not great with time, but I think I've had them in use for 9 years.

[gordner]

I have an antigravity I'm my Cafe racer motorcycle, mostly because of lack of real estate for installation. I am running it with a stock vr in place, made no changes to install, it has been abused and is faultless. I know balanced charging from my rc days, I don't think that's possible with these as you only have the traditional 2 posts for hook up, there is no way to read each cell.

[Mike Billings]

Had the Braille GU1R in the '73 for over a year .

6.4 lbs! For the battery!

Disconnect when not in use. I don't trickle charge either.

[Cajundaddy]

Not worth it for a DD IMO.

I have used 5lb Shorai LI Fe batteries for motorsport. They do have limited reserve AH and require special care and feeding to keep them healthy. A well-maintained Shorai that lives on it's dedicated charger/maintainer while not driving will last 5 years easily. Run them down to 5 VDC once or twice and it's goose is cooked.