The fine print has already been exposed and it appears it carries no provision for a boarded / seated passenger who is not creating a disturbance.

Their own fine print puts United on the wrong side of this.

And, more importantly in my mind, UAL needs to get this episode off meme central.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1492356447.jpg

The fact are irrelevant and regardless of how wack-doodle the Dr. may in fact be, he represents all of our frustration with the goat rope that air travel as become.

Shouldn't that read; The first rule of Flight club... ?

Definitely not. Most PC policies hurt asians disproportionately.

In China, reaction vs UA has been severe. Anti-UA posts were getting 20 millions views per HOUR. Another reason the CEO's failure to do competent crisis management is incredible. Maybe he figures domestic passengers are sheep, but can he really be complacent about his China biz? His China landing rights? His Chinese customers choosing flights outside of China?

Sure, the doctor is Vietnamese not Chinese. Anyone who thinks that matters is as clueless as UA's CEO. This is about perceptions now.

It's group think, a social media pile-on against a single entity, but perhaps it's overdue.

Well, China has a history of encouraging its people to get angry at a foreign company or industry for the government's political purposes or to distract from other issues. Not sure the government is doing so in this case.

^ oh isn't that just precious. Play the race card.

Yes, the Chinese government panders to and uses those tendencies in the population. Japanese companies get the treatment sometimes.

I don't get this. I am as liberal as they come, but when the airline tells you to leave the plane, you leave the plane. Its not your plane. Get your money back when you get off, tweet what a pile of crap the airline is and move on. If you don't get your money back, you sue for it. Grow a pair rather than sitting and whining snowflake.

This is no different the bakery having to provide service. Its wrong. Its not your plane, tough cookies, paid ticket or not. A private company can refuse service to whomever they like. I've ordered items (like a cake), gone in for pickup and told, it didn't get done, here is your money back, sorry.

That's life.

All you folks are a bunch of Emos just because this could have happened to you. Money don't buy you everything.

Wrong Tadd. It IS your plane. You paid for the seat and you have every right to be there- by the rules THEY made up. Airlines do not have the right to remove a paying boarded passenger who has done nothing unless the passenger agrees to go.

Your analogy is wrong too. After you've paid for the cake and taken possession no bakery has the right to take it back from you.

It's that simple.

I agree with Tadd. This idiot should've gotten off the plane when asked. The world doesn't revolve around him. One of the problems with our society today is we think we are individually far too important than we really are. I think that, in time, will learn two things about this guy. The first is that he has mental issues. Not the kind where he hears voices or thinks he's a giant pink rabbit, but he doesn't play well with others. I think the second thing will be that he did see a big payday coming.

Cairns, you need to read Tadd's analogy again, as the first time you didn't understand it.

JR

Except the cake was ready and he took possession but the bakers kid showed up and wanted cake right away so the baker tried to take the cake back.

You try to fix your problem, a problem you created, by making it my problem?

That's not to going to go well for you.

And that's not being a snowflake unless your definition of snowflake is an individual who stands up for themselves and doesn't take crap so someone else can get away with not taking responsibility for their own **** ups.

BS.

Plane hadn't left the fricken gate (cake had not been baked). Until that plane lands at it's destination (cake handed over), there is no guarantee of completion.

I see the same conditions as if there is a mechanical failure and the plane has to land early and they get everyone off the plane (oven dies). Or if a passenger goes into medical emergency (chef has a heart attack at work). Or they had a bigger order come in (a wedding) and yours didn't get done cause it was a $30 order vs a $10k order. Bad business? Maybe. We as a society are ok with short term maximization.

Your recourse is to get your money back, and possibly some compensation for lost time. That's it. They won't pay, then sue.

All the tort reform people need to come forwards on this one.

If this guy wants to sue someone for 'damages' it should be the air marshals. United didn't drag the guy off. The cops did, take it up with them.

Let's use your analogy.

You get to the airport and there's no plane. UAL cancels flight and gives you money back. End of story.

You get to the airport are issued a ticket and board plane. (you take the cake you've paid for). UAL wants your seat because they want to give it to their employee. (baker wants your cake because he promised it to the salesclerk).

Do you think the baker can forcibly take the cake back from you? You would let him do that just because he told you to? Do you think any cop in his right mind would make you hand over the cake to the baker after you showed him your receipt?

Read the contract of carriage. UAL has admitted that the passenger had a right to that seat and that they shouldn't have forced him off the plane. The contract which they drafted states so. I won't even go into contra referentem (because there isn't any ambiguity in the contract) but will note that if there were the writer of the contract (UAL) is at fault.

They could have cancelled the flight or they could have paid for a seat but they had no right to force him to vacate a seat he had paid for. They wrote that contract and made those rules. United, wrongly, requested that the cops remove him. That makes them liable. The cops, wrongly, removed him. That makes them liable. UAL, in short, breached the contract they had with Mr. Dao. And they did it in a pretty f'n egregious way. The police should not have removed him and they have, like UAL, admitted that they acted improperly (the cop can't make you give the cake to the baker- in fact the cop would normally laugh at both of you and say not my problem).

This isn't rocket science. And no right thinking person or entity admits fault unless they know they are wrong- especially if they think a lawsuit is forthcoming. They'd fight it in court.

And any attorney worth his salt is going to see that Mr. Dao- rightfully- gets a lot of money for the wrongs that have been inflicted on him. And FWIW the attorney would normally take 33% of that money as payment for his services.

Rather than lawyer up every time anybody in the world fails to recognize that I'm the most important person in it, I'm just going to do the right thing and get along with everybody.

This episode is just the latest example of a break in the social fabric of our society. It became very obvious diring this last election cycle, and it's just going to get far worse far worse. Nobody wants to play by the rules anymore and soon we'll have 330 million different opinions on every topic.

JR

Interesting. The passenger played by the rules that UAL created. UAL broke their own rules. But it's the passenger who is at fault here?

Right or wrong, this highlights a big problem with our legal system, a system that rewards plaintiffs (and lawyers) with windfall judgements, especially when his actions were a contributing factor.

IMHO this is comparable to the mcdonalds coffee lady. The difference is most of of have been inconvenienced by an airline, so it's easy to root for the passenger.

With his (over) reaction, I tend to think there were contributing factors to his actions... drugs? or maybe he was violating a probation if he didn't get back in time. (his medical license was sanctioned/limited)

Your giving him too much credit, likely didn't know the rules. He escalated a confrontation. You and I wouldn't have done that.

This is pretty much my philosophy in life. I'm going to let everyone else beat it out of each other, while I fixate on living a peaceful, stress-free existence. You guys all have at it!