If the officer has no PC to ask you to exit then you are well within your rights to sit there.

Generally does not end well for you but that is actually the problem, people are afraid to exercise their rights because they are afraid of the popo.

That should not be, ever.

Recycle:
There are taxis and busses. Same deal. Boats and ferries too. Anything for hire.

IMHO, you don't poke law enforcement unless you are willing to accept the pain that comes with that action. That is why we have lawyers.

An individual can only 'win' on the back side. Law enforcement is given the ability to use force. You aren't. Why risk yourself and trust their judgment with your personal health?

I can't believe UAL admits they're wrong and some of you continue to insist they're not. And I'll bet dollars to donuts those of you who think that way have never read the C of C.

This is a simple breach of contract case only compounded by the injuries the guy suffered and the media coverage. It has nothing to do with tort reform.

FWIW I've got almost a million actual on UAL. I've seen them pull some pretty sorry sh it (but not as bad as this) and I've seen them go above and beyond. I've got nothing against them and will continue to fly them.

But in this case they failed to follow their own rules, they breached their contract with Mr. Dao and they're going to pay for it.

Everyone should also note that airlines know what dynamic pricing is they use it on the public every day. Need to fly last minute? You're going to pay four times more than the schlub sitting next to you. Had they offered up to $1,000, 1,200, 1,300 they could have bought that seat back and everyone knows that. They made offers only because they KNEW that the passengers sitting in those seats had a right to them.

They just didn't want to offer what the passengers felt those seats were worth. They got greedy and now they're going pay for it. Payback is indeed a b* itch.

And think about how you'd feel if the guy was your father or grandfather (much less child). Oh gramps wasn't doing anything wrong he just didn't leave when he was told to- let's give him a concussion break his teeth and drag his ass off the plane- we'll show him who's boss.

Absolutely. He acted like a little kid. The similarities to the "I don't wanna" tantrums most two-year-olds display are too numerous to ignore. His excuse doesn't hold much water with me. I know an awful lot of doctors and not a single one of them can't arrange coverage for their patients when they are away, for whatever reason.

Bottom line, I'm a reasonable person. I realize that I don't own the plane and if the entity that does wants me off of it, I'm going to get off. I don't much care what legal rights I have, plus I also understand that they may need the seats more than I do. There are other flights and I'd be happy to take a little cash and get to my destination a few hours later. I've been delayed by mechanical problems, weather, a crew shortage (oh, the irony) and many other things and I've never been paid for those instances.

If you go through life with a chip on your shoulder and fight every little battle and perceived slight, you're going to have a ****ty life, and you'd deserve it.

JR

A little kid that will get a fat settlement.....

He had a chip on his shoulder?? He fights every little battle and perceived slight? Cut me a break.

He's an old man who just wanted to go home. He didn't want to fight anyone. That is OBVIOUS.

UAL put him in this situation and they deserve what they're going to get.

Wait until the trial. I'm not referring to his seedy "drugs for sex" past but his behavior was not a surprise to people that know him.

Or, he didn't want to do the right thing. I don't know a single person that would not have just gotten off the plane without any fuss.

Sometimes you make your own problems. I'm not justifying his injuries but I don't agree that he's due the huge settlement he's likely to get. Far more deserving people have gotten far less than he will.

Often, in our society, the ****heads win and that does bother me some.

JR

He did not need any valid reason other than "nope, I don't wanna go". We might consider that selfish but we don't get to decide for him.

Have you watched the video? Hardly throwing a tantrum. He was actually pretty composed all things considered.

I don't walk around with a chip on my shoulder and I also don't take **** from those who do.

I'm not a big guy. The tallest I've ever been is 5'8". Through middle and early HS I used to catch a lot of crap. I was an easy target. One day I decided I'd be a much happier kid getting my ass handed to me while standing up for myself than being a pussy. I did not like taking **** and was not going to any longer.

I got the **** kicked out of me plenty of times but the guy on the other end never came out unscathed either. Pretty soon people figured out that screwing with me was just not worth it and life was good.

When you have self respect it projects in how you carry yourself and people will (mostly) treat you accordingly.

I think you misunderstand. I don't necessarily approve of a huge settlement for him but I'm not on the jury. If UAL learns a lesson (and taking their $ away is going to help do that) I'm all for it. It is what it is. If you want tort reform call Congress.

And he DID the right thing. UAL didn't and the cops didn't. i might not have done the same you may not have done the same but that's immaterial. He did the right thing he was unjustly punished for it and now those who did the punishing admit they're wrong and they will pay for it.

The cost to UAL in bad publicity has a far greater cost (IMO) than the amount they'll pay. You don't treat your customers like sh *t and get away with it- everyone has a cell phone and you're going to be on you tube in a heartbeat.

And in the end I think everyone can admit that UAL treated that passenger like sh *t. They treated the ones who got off the plane like sh *t too. Oscar's heart only went out to him because he doesn't want any more bad publicity- any settlement money is a drip off their bottom line.

And if there weren't any bad publicity UAL would go on treating their customers like sh *t and those of you who got off the plane might get on one tomorrow. But that's all you'd get.

Thanks to him UAL isn't going to tell a paying boarded passenger to get off the plane when they don't have a right to. He did the flying public a favor- by standing up for himself he stood up for all of us- even though I'm sure he didn't realize it. He was just an old man who wanted to go home.

just read the article that I posted just now. Interesting read about rules based decision making and the lack of initiative United employees can exercise. The point is made that United was more focused on making the merger work from a structural standpoint than customer relations. Also the point is made that with union contracts the focus is on tenure not talent. Will be interesting to see if United (or other big companies) can actually make changes that result in better service and potentially more profit.

You might wish to discuss the cognitive dissonance in this statement at your next therapy session.

SmileWavy

JR

One thing I learned from a cop friend long long ago.

You will never ever under any circumstances win an argument with a cop on the side of the road or in any situation where he gives a direct command. You might be 100% right, but if you don't do what the cop says, you are not going to be happy at all.

The only recourse, is to go before a judge and have a lawyer at your side. It might not be fair and I do think it is really unfortunate, but that is a fact of life that is set in stone. When three cops tell you to do something, you will comply either willingly or unwillingly unless you can do a Chuck Norris on all three. That will just escalate the eventual outcome because there are more cops waiting to take a shot. (Pun intended)

The one thing he did with his resist was get huge publicity. Now his attorney will have a cake walk.

The Airport police were told go remove the passenger. They did. Right or wrong, now a judge will decide how wrong it was.

Put yourself in Mr Dao's shoes.
He's sitting with his wife. I can see her saying to him "if you leave me alone on this plane, you will never have sex again".
Having them drag him off was his only out!

Here's some more lack of initiative:

United 'forced arthritic grandma, 94, into cramped seat' | Daily Mail Online

Agree 100%. Cops always win. How many videos do you see where the cops lose? Like the cops say, "Tell it to the Judge"

A good point made by Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs, Deadliest Catch).....

"..Here’s the thing. It’s easy to forget that we have no right to fly. Buying a ticket doesn’t change that. So, when we board the plane, we have no right to remain there. We can be legally removed if we’re too drunk, too loud, too creepy, too suspicious, or too big for the seat. We can be removed if we stink. We can be removed if we’re insubordinate. We can be removed for whatever reason the airline deems necessary.
Obviously, airlines don’t like to remind us of such things, because it makes them sound mean. So they bury the truth in the fine print of a 37,000-word contract, and tell us how much they love us in sappy commercials and mandatory safety briefings that try oh-so-hard to make us smile. But the facts are clear: if you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what you’re told. If you don’t, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. It’s all there in the fine print.
Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I don’t want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore. I’ve been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders...."

A bunch of good points but not one that applied to this passenger or situation.

I don't know why not...

JR

Tadd, we don't see eye to eye much because you are so rarely correct, like now, for example.

United violated their contract with this guy. They called the airport security to enforce their breach of contract, hence the airport security, acting as their agent committed this assault. The fact that United did not pay the salary of the security officers directly does not enter into it at all. You don't have to pay someone for them to act as your agent.

I used a poor example. Change it to a security guard I hired, to a security guard employed by the building where I lease space, that is a more apt comparison.

Your fear of standing up for your rights is quite telling. I have indeed been pulled over by the police. White guy with long hair in a primarily black neighborhood, straight up profiling. Refused to consent to anything he asked aside from giving him my license and registration. Why am I in this neighborhood, going to see someone. He wanted to know who I was going to see. A patient, no I will not tell you their name. I guess he could have shot me. Then I would be dead, he would be a former LEO and my family would be millionaires. Turns out, the little old lady I was going to see at her home tore into the officer's supervisor on the phone before I even got out of her house. She started out perturbed I was late. That turned into furious that the police could not manage to find a criminal to hassle.

If I am wrong, I don't have a problem saying so. Like my poor example that I gave a correction for above.

Oh and you can win an argument with a cop on the side of the road, you just have to pick your battles. Had some psycho cop pull me over and I was all, "yes sir." Got him suspended for a month with notarized statements from the 5 people in the car that heard everything he said. I am quite certain he would have beaten me to death on the side of the road if I had been alone.