Barcelona Attack

[unclebilly]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/17/driver-of-las-ramblas-van-didnt-care-who-was-in-its-way

First they crashed airplanes into buildings, we locked down air travel and it hasn't happened since.

The latest craze is driving vans into streets and sidewalks crowded with pedestrians. How do we prevent this?

[unclebilly]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/aug/17/barcelona-attack-van-driven-into-crowd-in-las-ramblas-district

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

The latest craze is driving vans into streets ans sidewalks crowded with pedestrians. How do we prevent this?

Ban cars? or at least, ban cars in high density urban areas (Manhattan, etc).

[Borders Reivers]

Ban people

[javadog]

There's no way we will ever stop this, unless we kill enough of these little ****heads that the rest of them have a change of heart and find something else to do with their lives.

This is not so much a war against radical Islam as it is a war against Islam itself. The fact is that, for every Jihadi that commits an act like this, there's at least 1 million other Muslims that think that the sort of acts are acceptable. Until that changes, there will not be enough pressure from inside the Muslim faith to stop this, so they will just have to be killed. Nothing else will stop them.

[manbridge 74]

Take over their "holy" sites. This will force moderate Muslims to root them out in order to be allowed access.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by javadog

There's no way we will ever stop this, unless we kill enough of these little ****heads that the rest of them have a change of heart and find something else to do with their lives.

This is not so much a war against radical Islam as it is a war against Islam itself. The fact is that, for every Jihadi that commits an act like this, there's at least 1 million other Muslims that think that the sort of acts are acceptable. Until that changes, there will not be enough pressure from inside the Muslim faith to stop this, so they will just have to be killed. Nothing else will stop them.

I would take a different approach were I king of the world. The terrorists attacks...next one...Mecca will disappear. Another one, then their next most sacred site....rinse, lather, repeat.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

Take over their "holy" sites. This will force moderate Muslims to root them out in order to be allowed access.

I was typing as you were....but we're thinking along the same lines. I'd strike right at the very core of what they "care" about....

[manbridge 74]

Start with all mosques where hate is preached. Turn them into something that does humanity some good. Save Mecca for last...

[Borders Reivers]

Radical Muslims want to kill you, moderate Muslims want Radical Muslims to kill you.

[manbridge 74]

Well, then it will be easier to identify which are the slacker Muslims in regards to their beliefs. I'm quite sure there are plenty who aren't devout but rather traditionalists or belong for social reasons.

[VillaRicaGA911]

Europe should have started by not letting in thousands of "refugees" most of who just for so odd reason were male and military age. How strange they all wanted to escape their home countries and come to Europe....

[rumlyne]

Gentlemen, I would like to express a rational opinion and ask a question before
this goes to PARF. which I enjoy reading more than watching the comedy channel.
Notice my post count AND my join date. I've been here a long time, built a nice
3.6 conversion and generally found this place to be a wonderful collection
of varied backgrounds. I feel like I know most of you.

My 20yr old Grandchild is dating a wonderful young man who just left the
USMC. I asked him why he got out. This is what he told me.

After three tours in the sandbox I had to quit while I still have a soul.
You can only kill so much and still have a soul. I almost cried. He said
he asked an english speaking Afghan what he thought it would take
to stop this war. He paused for a moment and said "go home".

The other night I watched a FLIR video from a C130 gunship clearing
a path for what appeared to be a pair of our HUMMVEs. This was
not in a mud hut area. Multistory buildings and the like. Afghans
were swarming towards the road from all directions. Our guys and trucks
have IR strobes on them. You do what you have to do because there you are.It was 20 minutes of unmitigated slaughter! Just a fact, we do what you have
to do to protect our people. You could see people being thrown 100's
of feet by the big gun (105 i believe). You could see the Chinooks finally
find a place to land and get them out, then we destroyed our trucks.
I bet we killed 200 plus.
We have been doing this to them for 16 YEARS and they are fighting
harder then ever.

Now the opinion: We need to find a way out of this mess while WE as
a country still have a soul. I think this is at the heart of a lot of the turmoil
going on in this country. We are losing our soul.

Now the question: If Mexico suddenly developed a technology that allowed
them the ability to wipe us from the air and invade our country, and do to
us what I saw that one plane doing to them. WHEN WOULD YOU STOP
FIGHTING BACK.

I'm not what some in the PARF toilet would call *******. I worked for station
training at USMC air station Cherry Point NC for 15 years. I've deployed with Marine tactical air control squadrons.

I will not post in the toilet as that place is more proof of our losing our soul.
I hope I've offended no one. I felt I had to scream somewhere.

Thanks. Sorry for being so long winded. My post count here is the sum
total of my contribution to the interwebs.

I fear for our country.

[Jims5543]

I fear for our country too, for the first time in 16 years I am seeing a lot of Americans cheering on the demise of our country. I have never seen anything like this in my life.

Concerning the ME. The young guy is right we just need to leave and let them got on with their genocide and archaic way of live and rule.

Once electric cars are common place, the ME will be like Afrika and no one will care what they do to each other. Until we reach the point where we do not need crude, this will not end.

[manbridge 74]

@rumlyne

Well this is just a forum for brainstorming not setting policy.

Do you have a solution in mind? Or was there ever a problem?

I believe this is a war for the West, as in freedom to go places without undue risk of death. Freedom to make the world better, not just for myself but all peoples. I don't want to live under Sharia law or some caliphate. I want to vote for my leaders however imperfect they might be. I don't think a country that has the ability should choose to refrain from doing something to stop innocent people from dying just because they showed up for work or were enjoying a meal at a cafe on the street.

[unclebilly]

Rumlyne - thank you for your post.

[rumlyne]

Manbridge asks a for sure very real yet very hard question.

Part of my answer is I think NO ONE has a real answer.
At the start I was in the "kill'em all let allah sort it out camp.
But if you miss just one breeding pair it won't work.
What I type next I don't mean to sound unamerican because I'm not.
I don't believe in what some choose to call American Exceptionalisim.
We as Americans can only view the world thru American eyes We
see only the good we have done and none of the bad. We see how
good we have it (for now) but don't get it that other, vastly older
cultures just don't see it that way. I point out that when we helped
the mujahadeen chase the russians out. They thought that we would
leave and let them sort their problems out Instead WE installed a leader
of our own choosing. I think it was a mistake for Bush to "declare War"
on ALQueda. I don't mean we shouldn't kill all them, but by "declaring war"
on them gave legitimacy to a bunch of religious nuts. I mean hey they
be so bad ass the mighty US had to declare war on them. Don't forget
after 9/11 most of the world was on our side. Ever wonder why the Iranians
hate us? Look up the first country the CIA overthrew. Again we put a
murdering dictator in power who killed and oppressed his own people
in THEIR EYES with our money and backing. Not a value judgement
just the facts. We still killing Afghanis and those Alqueda nuts were our pals
with the oil, you know, Saudis. All the Taliban did to us was not give
Osama to us when we asked. The Pakistanis kept the taliban in power
so they didn't have to worry about Afghanistan while they kept their
eyes on their real enemy INDIA. Now thanks to us they have 2 enemies,
India and the Taliban. I'm sure that that 2 or 3 Thousand year old culture
can't wait for some of ours, they gonna love honey booboo and Ru Pauls
drag race.

I believe the last time Islam got loose Charles "The Hammer" Martel finally
stopped them in northern France sometime around 1300/1400.
So you could be right!
Again I hope I don't offend with my opinions.
I hope this can stay out of PARF I think the brits are really the cause of
this when they drew the borders of the region after the war and fall of the
Ottoman Empire with no cares about the different peoples and Islamic sects.

OH "wink wink" I think more people voted on American Idol than voted
in real elections. Let us talk about the history of the region for without
understanding that we may in fact have to kill them all. WE consider
that to be genocide and I thought we didn't like that.

I think we can both agree that it won't be solved on an internet forum.

[sc_rufctr]

Interesting posts "rumlyne" but the reality is things will get a lot worse before they get better.

When I think about the people that have already died it makes me really sad. We have to finish this one way or the other & on our terms. I've lived in predominately Muslim countries and we need nothing from their societies. It really is time to fix this! Whatever it takes it. Trying to appease them wont have the effect we want.

You have to understand the thought process of their leaders. The average Muslim may be peaceful but his leaders aren't. They're about control and dominance. Ask any minority what it's like living under Muslim rule. Even Buddhist monks have retaliated with violence against Muslim oppression. Talk to a Sikh or Hindu about what's it's like living with Muslims.

Terrorism is all about fear, oppression and ultimately control & that's why many Muslims cheer at their successes.

I have a close friend who is a Sikh. He and his entire family left Malaysia mainly because of the influence of Sharia law. He told me we do not need this in any form in Australia and yet we have "Australian" Imams insisting it would be good for Australia if we introduced Sharia law and all its elements, including the corporal punishments for various crimes. And guess what... Our "Lefties" are listening to them!

A solution? I know what it would take to fix this but it wouldn't work in our democratic societies.

I've written this many times. "We've collectively shot ourselves in the foot and we did this decades ago."

[KFC911]

Thank you for your posts and perspective Rumlyne! I've always thought that despite the US's intentions and efforts, we just make a BAD situation even worse in the sandbox with our presence there. WE can't fix it....it's that simple imo....do we destroy OUR country trying..,.I dunno .

I'd pull out, then issue the "religious site" ultimatum if the terrorist attacks continue.

I equate this to some of the misconceptions regarding why many dirt poor southerners fought the civil war....it wasn't about slavery to many. Foreign troops invade lands your ancestors have lived on, YOUR homeland....and you fight like hell with any means necessary...it's human nature.

[rumlyne]

I've seen video of our troops on patrol going thru poppy fields and we
do nothing. The warlord that we pay to be our buddy won't stay our
buddy if we mess with his poppies. More people are dieing in this
country from opiods then on the front in Afghan.

If we have to do it. I feel we should not be on the ground there.
Destroy all their infrastructure. Take away their water ,elec. all
modern amenities. They want to live in the 5th century, let them.
Park an armed drone on them and keep it there. BUT, how will
that stop someone from running over people here with a truck.
That is the question. IKE once said or problem is the fringe right and
the fringe left throwing rocks at all the rational people in the middle who
are the only ones trying to get any thing done. Oh, he also said
BEWARE THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. Don't forget who's
getting richer in all this. Every time a reaper drone pops off a hellfire
missile Raytheon makes another 100K.

Lets not put right or left labels on one another about one opinion
on one subject. Then the discussion goes to hel...I mean PARF.

I enjoyed Manbridges input as it was a polite insertion of another
thought. I'd like to hear what he thinks we should do. I don't
think our country could in fact kill them all, or continue to be what
I was raised to think America stood for. At the rate we are going
we will have killed ourself first.