What to do???

[sc_rufctr]

Sounds like the car was misrepresented by the mechanic doing the PPI.

I'd do everything I could to get the car returned back to the original owner.
How much did you pay for it? (rhetorical question) Is it worth engaging a lawyer?

I really can't understand why people think it's OK to do stuff like this.

But...

Not as uncommon as you might think here. I won't buy a car without looking at it firsthand anymore.

Same here. The last car I bought "remotely" was from Malaysia. It looked great in the photos but when it arrived . Never again.

[bpu699]

I'm hoping for both parties it's simple stuff that can get fixed... Most things can be fixed...

[RANDY P]

If what the OP says is accurate, it's blatant. I'd be trying for the seller's head as well.

rjp

[pavulon]

Been here, done this right down to the wtf PPI in a different state. Had to lawyer up, travel, depositions, but stumbled into a fellow pelican who had bought the car prior to me (was horribly misrepresented to him too) and refused delivery. Still took 6 months out of my life to force feed this car back to the seller but he ate the turd and paid through the nose.

It sucks.

[verticalflight]

Spoke with shop today. The owner said he acknowledges that the PPI was a real **** job, they messed up, and that going forward they are suspending PPI's and no longer doing them. He said he had one other issue in the last month related to PPI's too, and will refund me on the $200 fee.

When I asked about all the issues on the car, ABS not working, interior problems, front clip, leaking engine, missing fender liner, poor wiring, missing airbag, misinstalled wiring/headliner/etc. all the issues NOT reported on the PPI, he said:

"What do you expect, the car has 180k miles and you've got to think it will have issues".

He also said:

"Do you think for $200 I am going find all the problems with the car?"

He said if the car was local he would agree to work on it but he won't pay to have a mechanic work on these items they missed in my location.

So basically the seller is out of it, the shop won't stand behind their inspection, and I'm out the $$$ to repair.

[Tremelune]

[1990C4S]

Any legal wording on his invoice? What did you sign prior to having the work done?

I will defer to MRM if he weighs in, but in my mind you're barking up the wrong tree. I do not see you getting the 'necessary' work done on the PPI's dime.

Go to the seller and try to work a deal that hurts less than re-selling the car.

What do you think your loss is if you honestly represent the car for what it is and flip it?

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by verticalflight

He also said:

"Do you think for $200 I am going find all the problems with the car?"

Um, I took my 2015 Nissan into the dealership for a free inspection and they found some bad bushings.
So yeah, for $200 I expect them to put it up on a rack and spend at least 30 minutes with a flashlight (seems like all the defects could have been found in that time frame).

Originally Posted by sammyg2

You are more calm and patient than I would be in that case.
I don't know exactly how much I would over-react, but there would most definitely be over-reaction taking place.
I'D BE pissed!

I'm a pretty calm guy but I have to agree with sammy on this one.

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Not as uncommon as you might think here. I won't buy a car without looking at it firsthand anymore.

Yep, I have rolled the dice on a few low dollar internet purchases but nothing as big as a car... I learned my lesson by looking at local cars (with picture) on the internet then going to see them in person... egad you can hide a multitude of defects in blurry internet pictures!

[bpu699]

Still would like to know what car we are talking about here...

Maybe I am too pragmatic, but my expectations of a car with 180k miles are very low. I would expect it to basically stop working at any moment...

To the OP...

You really need to clarify what car we are talking about and what you paid... it makes a world of difference to strengthen your position if its an SC with 180k miles that you paid 35 k for... vs a 944 or boxster that's worth $4000 on a good day with 180k...

Most shops will no longer do PPI's for exactly this reason... No upside. Most inspections, whether home or car, explicity state that your damages are limited to the cost of the inspection. If its doesn't say that, you may have legal options. But again, pursuing legal options on a 150k$ car vs a 5k$ car is quite different...

Agree with what others posted, best to look at a car in person... if just to avoid this situation.

Bo


Would this happen to be it? (180k miles and from Arizona)

1990 Porsche 964 manual 180 k miles

Seller is a dealer? Seems to sell lots of cars and parts... Odd that all for sale ads have been wiped clean...

Whats wrong with the car, perhaps we call all help???

As an aside, if this is the car... please note all 964's leak oil like sieves, unless recently rebuilt... its the nature of that car. Also, any 964 with 180k would likely need a lot of money to put it right... that's a ton of mileage on a 964... a ton.

Porsches leak (or at least seep). 99.5% of them... Its all fixable. Any car with 180k miles is going to need lots of love (and $$$).

If you paid a lot, and this is the car, then you have every right to be upset... If you didn't pay a lot, just fix it and enjoy...

My first 911 was a 76 911s bought from a used car lot in the middle of winter, while in college. Paid $9000. Soon after, realized the car leaked, smoked on start up, grinded into 2nd gear, had rust, etc, etc. Still loved it, drove it everywhere, and slowly fixed it on a students budget. I miss that car. If the car you bought runs, just drive it!

Life is short!!!

[matthewb0051]

As others have said, you really need to look at the terms of your agreement with the shop that conducted the PPI. That should contain the substance of your agreement with them and if they are or are not liable for things if they somehow fail to uncover. If you don't have a written agreement with them then it will be incredibly hard to enforce some standard on them unless the state has regulatory guidance or law on what is to be covered in a PPI and also unless that guidance or law speaks as to liability.

My .02 and not intended as legal advice. I'm not licensed in any of the referenced states.

Of course this also swings on the type of car purchased and for how much. That info will seriously help in the quality of advice you receive both here and with a lawyer. You may be at a price point where the juice is not worth the squeeze. That sucks but it is also reality (been there recently myself).

[onewhippedpuppy]

I would totally disagree that having 180k absolves the seller from being honest and the shop from being competent. Particularly with a collector type car. I’ve had cars with over 200k that were in better condition than most cars with 20k. Honesty shouldn’t be conditional.

[verticalflight]

It was a $35,000 purchase for a 964, that I was looking to buy for my son as his first car.

Agree that making a list of the issues on the car is not dependent on purchase price. The PPI is the buyer's defense against an overly enthusiastic seller.

[motion]

Originally Posted by bpu699

Still would like to know what car we are talking about here...

Maybe I am too pragmatic, but my expectations of a car with 180k miles are very low. I would expect it to basically stop working at any moment...

To the OP...

You really need to clarify what car we are talking about and what you paid... it makes a world of difference to strengthen your position if its an SC with 180k miles that you paid 35 k for... vs a 944 or boxster that's worth $4000 on a good day with 180k...

Most shops will no longer do PPI's for exactly this reason... No upside. Most inspections, whether home or car, explicity state that your damages are limited to the cost of the inspection. If its doesn't say that, you may have legal options. But again, pursuing legal options on a 150k$ car vs a 5k$ car is quite different...

Agree with what others posted, best to look at a car in person... if just to avoid this situation.

Bo


Would this happen to be it? (180k miles and from Arizona)

1990 Porsche 964 manual 180 k miles

Seller is a dealer? Seems to sell lots of cars and parts... Odd that all for sale ads have been wiped clean...

Whats wrong with the car, perhaps we call all help???

As an aside, if this is the car... please note all 964's leak oil like sieves, unless recently rebuilt... its the nature of that car. Also, any 964 with 180k would likely need a lot of money to put it right... that's a ton of mileage on a 964... a ton.

Porsches leak (or at least seep). 99.5% of them... Its all fixable. Any car with 180k miles is going to need lots of love (and $$$).

If you paid a lot, and this is the car, then you have every right to be upset... If you didn't pay a lot, just fix it and enjoy...

My first 911 was a 76 911s bought from a used car lot in the middle of winter, while in college. Paid $9000. Soon after, realized the car leaked, smoked on start up, grinded into 2nd gear, had rust, etc, etc. Still loved it, drove it everywhere, and slowly fixed it on a students budget. I miss that car. If the car you bought runs, just drive it!

Life is short!!!

I believe he stated that the car was located in South Carolina. And, I doubt anyone is going to be buying a 964 Cab for their 16 year old. Likely, it was a 944 or 924. Good father son project.

I'm of the thinking that buying a car sight unseen is rolling the dice, heavily. These situations rarely have a good outcome. You need to really expect and plan for the worse.

[motion]

Originally Posted by verticalflight

It was a $35,000 purchase for a 964, that I was looking to buy for my son as his first car.

Agree that making a list of the issues on the car is not dependent on purchase price. The PPI is the buyer's defense against an overly enthusiastic seller.

Oops, I guess I was wrong. This whole thing is wrong on many levels, IMHO. Sorry you had to learn the hard way.

[verticalflight]

There is no legal contract on the PPI form, just a lot of green circles for all the items and then notes saying - needs license plate lights, washer squirter inop, cv boots torn

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I would totally disagree that having 180k absolves the seller from being honest and the shop from being competent. Particularly with a collector type car. I’ve had cars with over 200k that were in better condition than most cars with 20k. Honesty shouldn’t be conditional.

My experience was that when it comes to collector cars, far too many people consider honesty to be optional.

I didn't buy my old 911S thinking it would be collectable. Things just evolved that way. When it happened, it was better for me to leave that scene. Life is better now..

[GWN7]

Lawyer....

If the front clip has been welded back on you need to have a body integrity done. It might not be road safe. Was it advertised as a salvage title? Usually that amount of extensive repair indicated it was in a major accident.

[bpu699]

So sorry to hear...

A 180,000 mile 964 is worth 15-17k on a good day... Not demeaning the 964, but I have looked at nice ones, with 100k miles for sale for $19k...

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by verticalflight

Agree that making a list of the issues on the car is not dependent on purchase price.

No but it certainly does impact whether its worth going too far down the road to fix this mess.

At $35k its surely worth trying to make this right.

The thing that strikes me most is the non-functioning ABS. That may be a place to hang your hat on a complaint. For a shop to do a PPI it seems to me to almost substitute for a safety/license inspection. If you can't count on them to ID the most basic of safety issues then they have serious issues. The problem there is several southern states do not require annual inspections so any correlation will be hard to make.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by motion

Oops, I guess I was wrong. This whole thing is wrong on many levels, IMHO. Sorry you had to learn the hard way.

Yep...the OP didn't ask for my list of WTFs?, so I won't.

To the OP....this board can be an absolute gold mine of sound advice, but I honestly don't think you want to hear mine....I can be brutally honest with my thoughts .

Good luck however!