Lamenting Our No-Longer Affordable Hobby

[greglepore]

I have the opposite problem, sort of. Highly modified 3.2 Targa, non original just about everything (RUF bumper, non original seats, 17's, non original color, turbo,suspension). Its a hoot to drive but the mods decrease the value by 10k. Makes no sense to sell it unless I totally needed the money because I could never replace it. Anything half as much fun is close in dollars. The extreme rise in values of other Porsche's has locked me in to the one I have.

And no, I'm not stuck in the past. On the road, overland, son A's 2017 wrx or son B's Legacy gt with sti drivetrain are both faster, more practical and a whole lot of fun. Driven Cayene's and Boxters-fun too and for the street as fast the 911. My problem with most "modern" cars is that modern stuff is so competent that while they're fun, its more in a video game kind of way. Easy to shift, no steering kickback or muted communication, etc. You know the drill. To lose that sensation you either have to go ridiculous speeds or turn off the driver aids, and the cars aren't engineered to be driven with them off, really.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I can honestly say that I struggle to come up with many modern cars that I would really lust over. Probably the newest modern Porsche I would really want is a 996 or 997 GT3 with a manual transmission, or maybe a Boxster Spyder. I've had a lot of fast cars, they tend to be fairly unrewarding to drive regularly because you simply can't use them. I'm much more about the experience, and that's where a classic 911 excels. But I'll also note that my RX7 is fun and unique, while also being more usable on a regular basis.

[Halm]

When I bought my current SC in 2009, the saying was “All SC’s are $20,000 cars.” In my case, I paid $14k and immediately put another $6k into it to make it ready for the track and work out a few things the seller didn’t do right. That was the conventional wisdom of the time.

Isn’t that still true for a 996 (or Boxster)? IMHO, the 996 is the new SC. And for the most part you end up with a vastly higher performance car. And usually with good A/C.

But as Matt says, it is a different driving experience.

[slow&rusty]

Hey Matt - We have near identical automotive tastes, if you keep searching you can find a few gems for good money.

After some extensive searching, I bought this '87 951 last November for $10k and it had only 71k on the odo (3 owners). The car ran fine, just needed some love, a starter, new timing belt, balance shaft belt, water pump and front seals and address a few things.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Question for the guys who think an old 911 is the only car that is fun to drive .
Do you also have this "stuck in the past" mindset in other aspects of your lives?


(you are truly missing out on many great cars)

for me it's about driving a (relatively) slow car fast, the raw feel and the ability to be mechanically self sufficient. I don't care that a 996 is much faster than an early car. there are surely many great newer cars but I don't have the stones or the desire to explore the limits of them.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Hey Yasin, I love the 951 but it's a case of been there, done that. Great cars but I hate the turbo lag around town. I also despise working on them, it's one of the few cars that I would rate as worse than my RX7. I would definitely take the 323 GTX off of your hands though. I have spent a lot of time on goo-net looking at importing a 323 GTX, Pulsar GTiR, or Celica GTFour. Or just going big and getting an R32 GTR.

[slow&rusty]

Matt - I hear you brother, working on the 951 is a sheetshow - absolutely hair pulling! I can't believe how much easier my Datsun is and its the same tech (SOHC, 2V\ cylinder, factory turbo).

The GTX is such a great car, with a few mods and 200-225hp, they get with it. I just bought another running one for $800 out of Seattle. There is a really nice one in LA for $1400 but not running, I bet with a little time it would fire up.

The R32 GTR is the daddy for sure, and now a whole bunch have started appearing on our shores. I so dig the GTiR!

As an aside...$2500 obo for this, local car and running but it had an engine fire at one time:



My best - Yasin

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Halm

When I bought my current SC in 2009, the saying was “All SC’s are $20,000 cars.” In my case, I paid $14k and immediately put another $6k into it to make it ready for the track and work out a few things the seller didn’t do right. That was the conventional wisdom of the time.

Isn’t that still true for a 996 (or Boxster)? IMHO, the 996 is the new SC. And for the most part you end up with a vastly higher performance car. And usually with good A/C.

But as Matt says, it is a different driving experience.

I can see your point but the problem with the 996 is that it wont be around as long as the SC. It's a modern car that at some point will become uneconomical to repair. The Air Cooled cars baring a major catastrophe can always be fixed.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Honestly looking at value for money the 2002 has jumped the shark. When I see round tail light tii models selling for $30k+, that's even dumber than air cooled 911 prices.

I agree, which is why I said to buy a base car ;-) All you need to do is either put big carbs on it, or the injection from a 318, and you are besting Tii numbers for <$20K. Also I disagree, in that by and large I get as much if not more fun out of my 2002 than I do from my 911... It makes folks smile, it slides, I'm less worried about it ;-)

But yeah, generally speaking, everything has jumped the shark !

What bothers me is I'm an "old car pollinator": I love to try one, fix it up, drive it a few years, move onto another and cross-pollinate ;-) Now I'm stuck, which is not an awful situation with a 72 911, 74 GTV and 73 2002. But I grow bored of one model and want change, and if I sell (even for more $), I am not OK with paying current prices for another toy, nor would I be able to buy back if I made a mistake. Especially if like now I'd like to get my old 356A back (ha ha!! 4x what it sold it for, not worth that in a million years.. to me). Yeah - Dead hobby...

[ted]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Question for the guys who think an old 911 is the only car that is fun to drive .
Do you also have this "stuck in the past" mindset in other aspects of your lives?
(you are truly missing out on many great cars)

Agree...
Dare I say an inexpensive platform like a BRZ with a mild Rocket Bunny widebody kit?
Something to drive and park anywhere and is disposable and fits the like to drive a slow car fast box.

A dedicated race car is the only safe way to experience the limits of big power performance.
Full cage, all driver safety equipment at the track, with ambulance and fire crew on site.

Either way a race car or a street car is just another way to spend money.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

What bothers me is I'm an "old car pollinator": I love to try one, fix it up, drive it a few years, move onto another and cross-pollinate ;-) Now I'm stuck, which is not an awful situation with a 72 911, 74 GTV and 73 2002. But I grow bored of one model and want change, and if I sell (even for more $), I am not OK with paying current prices for another toy, nor would I be able to buy back if I made a mistake. Especially if like now I'd like to get my old 356A back (ha ha!! 4x what it sold it for, not worth that in a million years.. to me). Yeah - Dead hobby...

I have the same problem! I enjoy taking something neglected and making it nice again. But then I tend to get bored. In some ways I enjoy the project more than the end result, but then conversely I seem to have zero project time right now. Oh the paradox of my life....

I also kick around the idea of selling my 911SC, but know full well that if I do, I won't be able to afford to buy it back. So that sucks.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Hey Yasin, do you have any more pictures of the 323 GTX? I dig the Z too, though if I bought any Z car it would be a Z32 300ZXTT. One of my teenage dream cars, and they are surprisingly affordable. At least for now.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Question for the guys who think an old 911 is the only car that is fun to drive .
Do you also have this "stuck in the past" mindset in other aspects of your lives?


(you are truly missing out on many great cars)

Yea, and no!

I love my 85 911 and after 22 years I still smile when I get to go to yet another autocross. I know I have done well over 100 autocrosses in it. After 2+ decades there is not one part that is undisturbed. The car is kinda stock. During the complete suspension rebuild for new rubber suspension bushings I did go up one size in torsion bars (21 & 27) from OEM and I went to Bilstien HD shocks. The turbo tie rods are not stock but I feel everyone calls them an upgrade. My wife will ride with me in the summer because the AC works after a Griffith's Dual Kuhel upgrade.

My wife was happy to ride with me for a 5,500 mile drive to Maine and visit every single New England state. How many other 1985 cars can be driven that far and have a happy wife?

My daily driver is an 1986 El Camino that I have had since 1991 so 26 years. I figure the Elky is for hauling stuff, and the 911 is for hauling butt.

We have some modern stuff. My wife's daily driver is a 2017 Macan. It is like a space ship compared to my antique cars. It is a blast to drive but it is a complex computer filled machine. It does not even have 4,000 miles yet so not much to do but drive it.

[scottmandue]

I would echo Matt's taste in cars.
I love the old German cars (wish I has the money when the 996 prices were down).

But you get more bang for your buck from across the Pacific ocean...

There is a local place that imports weird high performance Japanese iron, most of them are banned in the USA... not sure how that works?

https://www.importavehicle.com/vehicles

[911 Rod]

I think the baseline price of a car that should go to the wreckers has skyrocketed.
Pretty much anything that costs less than having to explain to the wifey, should not be fixed.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I would echo Matt's taste in cars.
I love the old German cars (wish I has the money when the 996 prices were down).

But you get more bang for your buck from across the Pacific ocean...

There is a local place that imports weird high performance Japanese iron, most of them are banned in the USA... not sure how that works?

https://www.importavehicle.com/vehicles

Google the 25 year import rule. Any vehicle older than 25 based on build date can be legally imported and registered in the USA. I am seriously considering importing something, because there are so many cool options from Japan and many of them are cheap. Unlike the dealership you linked to (which has cool stuff), there are a number of companies that will locate you a car in Japan for a flat rate, essentially buy it at wholesale, then handle importing and shipping.

[GH85Carrera]

But most Japanese cars made for their market are right hand drive.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Google the 25 year import rule. Any vehicle older than 25 based on build date can be legally imported and registered in the USA.

Oh great... thanks a lot Matt Ironically I found those guys searching for a cappuccino.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

But most Japanese cars made for their market are right hand drive.

But that is added cool factor!
However looking at the cars at that dealer I found myself wondering what it would be like shifting with my left hand
On the other hand when I had my carpel tunnel I had to learn to do things left handed (don't say it you bunch of perverts!).

I could also add, when I am board and do a fantasy car search = coupe+$20K a bunch of interesting American iron shows up.

[sugarwood]

I agree that modern cars are too powerful to enjoy.
But a 911 isn't the only slow car you can buy.
Tons of 200hp cars out there for cheap as peanuts:
base Mustang, base Boxster/Cayman, 1 and 3-series, Miata, GTI, BRZ, Celica, RX7, etc.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

But most Japanese cars made for their market are right hand drive.

And typically the wiper and signal stalks are reversed, unlike the UK, I think....