Once again personal attacks. I'm guessing it has something to do with the 911 group - the 944 guys who started this conversation are above that kinda thing. I guess the moderators are more liberal on your boards, eh?

Anyway, they left them behind. Took off out of fear. It's as simple as that. The movie changed that totally. No way to make it sound good, no matter how you say it.

If you insist on posting inflammatory comments on a BBS then expect some critique and return commentary. To top it off you say you read the book and watched the movie yet you come here with incomplete and/or inaccurate facts. Our men overseas deserve better than that. Shame on you.

Once again another war hawk succeeds in de-railing the conversation from why we should NOT go to war with Iraq to 'shame on you for reading instead of watching the movie like I did'.

To sum up the previous argument, just check out:

http://www.theaxisofevil.net

That pretty much says it all

-S (Yes, I run the Axis Of Evil Network, and I'm proud of it ;) )

Sternn, in one thread you imply the US government is shelling out disinformation to its’ populus:
“You know what you have been told, which is what our government wants you to know. Thats it.”

THEN, in the same thread, you make an argument of authority, in the matter of chemical weapons, because you have read the US government FM’s.
“Aside from a good read they are the current field manuals involving NBC (nuclear/biological/chemical). . . “

Of course, you also claim to know the extent of my knowledge by stating “. . . Thats it.” -hmmm

These are just a few samples of poor logic . . . though you statements are full of them . . .among other stuff & fluff.

. . and since you enjoy the graphics:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...competence.jpg

Now i've seen everything, a couple guys with blinders on lecturing someone with a working brain on their perceived flaws of logic.

I used to think conservatives had the answers. Now they just have their dogma.

I can't wait till the real ***** goes down.

I can't wait till all the Bush supporters have chips in their hands, no more guns and share the same currency with Ecum Secum.

I can't wait till WWIII destroys most of what we know today and the New World rises from the fire and all the people who were so gung ho about a war now are servents to the actual smart people.

HOW THE HELL CAN ANYONE HERE SUPPORT A WAR ON IRAQ!!!!!?????
In order to support a war (which should be a rare thing) - the "bad" guy should have done something unimaginable or the "bad guy" must be JUST ABOUT TO KILL YOU!!!! None of this is happening and there are still that group of daft people who will support a war. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!??? Anyone been "talking in your ear" lately? The flashy images on that box in your living room sending you messages? I'm serious - I think those few who support this war HAVE to be brainwashed.

944S Boyeee

So *that's* what the "actual smart people" are waiting for.

Wow, that plan is pure genious! :rolleyes:

Seriously; Saddam has enough chemical weapons to kill the whole world population 9 times over. (except the "actual smart people". . .they have denial to protect themselves).

Technology has made this world a much smaller place. If you don't see that, you must be Amish.

9 times over???? Man, you better call the UN - they have been trying to figure out if Saddam has nukes or chemical weapons and all along island911 has been privy to this valuable information!!!

If anyhing - those who believe that Bush is out to "protect" the USA or that he is trying to start a war over oil are the ones living in denial for protection.

Here is how it will go down....

1. Enemy created (Bin Laden, Saddam, North Korea, etc).
2. Enemy blows something up in America (even if they don't know they did it).
3. America gets scared.
4. America gives up freedoms (guns, freedom of speech, etc) in exchange for "protection" against the evil enemies.
5. World now more under control and organized AND America (home of the World Leaders) can widen it's boundries - i.e. - takeover a weak world with no opposition from it's now submissive people.

9/11 WAS supposed to be the event that sparked this plan - but the American people are stubborn. The new "airport security" measures were met with no opposition for what, a day?? Then America went back to it's whinny, "what about me", "this is crap" attitude. Then they thought they would throw in some Anthrax to up the ante. No go. The "shock" value wasn't as strong as suspected.

Tell the average American that you want to monitor them and control them more and they will tell you to f**k right off. Scare them into thinking they are at risk (ya, right America is the ONLY Superpower left and could take out the entire planet before anyone could get a chance to send off a nuke or slowwwwwwwly administer a biological attack) and things change.

Look at all the "Terror Alert Rating" systems and the warning of how evil and demented Saddam is. All scare tactic.

Sad thing is it's not working - again. That only leaves one option. A massive nuke or biological attack on US soil - total chaos.

....and yet, nobody sees it coming. Bush is like your dad who wants to spank you and beat you to scare you to stop acting up - but says he "loves" you while doing it. How do you get a kid to stay in line? Most believe you scare them. How do you get a kid to do what you want and not complain? Most say you put the fear of punishment in their heads. How do you let a convict know he did wrong? Lock him up, take away his freedom and put him on probation so he is scared to do it again. How do you make a racehorse run faster? Hit him with the shock buzzer in the end of the whip to jolt him into doing what you want - cause him pain.

So, how do you get an entire nation to conform, listen, act and BELIEVE what you want then to believe? Well, according to the patterns of humankind in my above examples - you shock, scare, threaten and abuse them.......but that could never be done by their own Government - that would make the Government just like Saddam or Hitler right? The America Government is nothing like that, right? Of course they aren't....how could they be? They have been protecting the people for so long right? Nope - America has been so busy trying to take over the planet over the past few decades, that it forgot to police it's own people - and now it's too late. Punishment, fear, shock and pain must now be used to put America back under control.

THAT, my friends is the BIG PICTURE - like it or not. There is no other explicable reason for a war right now. It just doesn't make sense and it frustrates me that people cannot see this.......but I guess that is what they want.

944S Boyeee

944SBoyee

You need to hurry and put aluminum foil over all your windows so the CIA can't read your mind. You need to be more careful what you type because George is reading pelican parts and will have you assasinated. You need to be careful of the black helicopters that are watching every move you make.

You ask, why can't anyone else see what you see? Well, uhm maybe cause we aren't all tripping on LSD.

Don't worry, we can't all hear that noise in your head, but what we all can hear is your dog talking to you. It's ok, your dog is right, do what he says. Find a really tall bridge.

Courtesy of Louis Ruykeyser:

"Only a nation as desperate to be loved as the United States would fret about, rather than chuckle over the Orwellian irony of being lectured to about arrogancy by the French and about militarism by the Germans."

It once again proved my theory on the pro-war crowd. Whenever anyone says anything even slightly intelligent on the subject of why the war is bad, they are immediately deemed a 'conspiracy theorist' or 'unpatriotic', and then the pro-war crowd attacks them personally, instead of trying to attack their arguements.

944S Boyee - have no fear, as a former member of my college debate team I can tell you with confidence, this is the sure sign of defeat on the part of the other side. In laymans terms, it's the adult equivalent of 'I know you are but what am I'.

Sternn You were on the college debate team?!
Dude!--Get your money back!
CLEARLY, you learned very little about formal logic and argumentation.
Most all of your "logic" falls in to the catagory of "informal logic" falicies. While this maybe effecitive to derail some, those whom have actually learned something about argumentation (both formal and informal) will quickly indentify your simplistic tactacts, and lacking logical arguments.

;)In lay terms; get a clue.

I'm not a conspiracy person. I'm not un-patriotic (how can I be, I'm Canadian, eh).

So, why exactly is it that my "theory" isn't anymore far fetched than the others out there? What if I'm correct? - wouldn't that make all the believers of different schools of thought the "crazy" ones?

Telling me I hear voices and my dog talks to me shows me that the American culture is so pre-programmed in certain aspects. If an American had "theories", then he/she MUST be crazy cause the Golden Government of the US of A has NEVER done anything wrong, right? Someone with any thoughts that may oppose what CNN tells you just HAS to be nutso, correct?

Man, I'm awfully glad that all the inventors of the world didn't come from the present US. Poor Einstein - imagine him in the US today.

Einstien - "I have his great theory"
America - "Shut up, crazy person!!"
Einstien - "....but really, I think I have the cure for cancer......"
America - "Well, you better hide it before the CIA comes and kills you and takes it!!!. Did your dog tell you the cure??"

Sad

944S Boyeee

No kidding Island. Sternn may have been on a college debate team at DeVry Institute of Technology, or Wilma's College of Cosmetology, but he has incredibly poor reading comprehension if he doesn't find 944SBoyee's posts ridiculous. I would be laughing my ass off at 944's posts if I wasn't blown away that someone could be that far gone and not be in a padded cell.

Once again the opposing side resorts to cheap name calling.


Or if you want to get techincal, a fallacy of the argument, changing the subject (i.e. attacking the speaker).

In fact, I have a nice piece that covers just fallacies if you are really interested in proper debating techiniques, and how they relate to the Iraq war arguments.

http://www.theaxisofevil.net/article.asp?id=477

And another piece that is the basic argument I make. It can be summed up with the last line in the article...

"Haven't we abandoned American ideals the moment we attempt to impose them by force?"

http://www.theaxisofevil.net/article.asp?id=417

I mean seriously. We invaded Afghanistan, and now we have troops there burning the opium crops. Opium was legal under the Taliban regime (to grow, not use). We are sending troops into Columbia to burn farmers coca crops. We are 'liberating' these people from what? Their 'bad' ways?

Hi! We are liberating your country! Oh, and by the way, you can no longer do this, this or this, because it is against our laws we feel the rest of the world must follow as well. But don't worry, your now FREE! (Free to operate within the bounds we decide are right for you).


You know what I would love to see? Some guy in Afghanistan starting up a cigarette company with like triple the various 'bad ingredients' but twice the pleasure. Watch how fast our government would try to regulate it, and watch how fast the US public would WANT THEM.

The only solution, is to let the US take over, and watch as the enemy attacks us on our own terms. Look at Turkey. They know whats up. You wanna go after the US without starting a war - attack our pocket books. Thats why Israel, Jordon, and Egypt all as of last Friday applied for BILLIONS more in US 'aid', and are now being very restrictive on what they give away for free. Look at the UK - they have a whole RAF unit sitting in Cyprus they can't get to Turkey because 2 countries want the UK to give them billions in 'aid' to let them fly their jets over.

I saw that, I laughed. Hard. Beat 'em, at their own game.

That and today Bush repealed the BUY AMERICAN act and is giving up BILLIONS in textile contracts to Turkey as well. Thats right - our troops will have a MADE IN TURKEY label in their BDU's at this time next year.

Anyone else amused by this? As a contractor, I learned a long time ago you NEVER say no to a contract. If you don't want to do it, just quote the client a high price. This way your in a win/win situtation. You either make out like a bandit or avoid the headaches of a bad contract.

You think our economy is in the crapper now, watch as all these other places we have troops sitting waiting for the 'next' conflict ask us for 'aid'. I'm wondering which administration is going to break the proverbial bank.

Anyway, thought I'd throw that in. Those pushing the war - I hope you have a good job, cuz with the cut backs in employment, our economy in the worst state its been in 30 years, and the stock market off 8000 points for this year thus far, and the price of a barrel of oil jumping to the highest in 20 years (what is it? 40 dollar jump in 2 days now?), your going to need it.

Sternn, it's like I said back on page 2 or 3: when the other side has exhausted their argument, they inevitably resort to personal attacks and name-calling. Never fails... you can give them the most logical argument in the world and they will come back at you with, "why don't you go hug a tree and smoke a joint, you long-haired, unpatriotic, hippie, commie, pinko, wanker!"

It is Intro to Psychology, 101

CJ - So is life.

So back to ironicly funny situtations. Bush just sold out the American textile industry and is giving all the government clothing contracts to Turkey. He also is letting them import textiles duty free for a year. A dozen congressmen are highly irked, because their states produce textiles for the government now, and their states largest exports are textiles (i.e. south carolina).

So Bush sells out these states in an 'effort to help Turkey', then Turkey says we CAN'T put troops there. So, no troops in Turkey, and thousands of American's will lose their jobs. Go Bush.

That ranks next to Bush telling reporters Wednesday that all the economy problems are the fault of a Republican Congress. They had a field day with that.

-S

I'm seeing a double standard here. When you talk about the otherside resorting to name calling, you call everyone who is for the war a "War Hawk". Thats name calling. I've seen way too many of the anti-war folks, when challenged, resort to name calling. I am at least half way impressed that you at least have something to back up your arguements other than the standard issue anti-war propaganda.

i never called anyone on this board a name because of a difference of opinion... hell, one of my best friends since kindergarten is a cadet at West Point, and nobody in the world is as pro-Bush as he is. He can back up his argument just as well as anyone, and it makes sense when he's doing it... but it doesn't seem that many people with the same opinion can. They are the ones that resort to name-calling. Hell, a lot of Liberals on this board resorted to name-calling as well, and they sure as hell aren't "war hawks."

Anyhow, it seems like this Iraq thing is beginning to subside just the littlest bit. Bush has feelers out taking polls and guaging public opinion on the war... kudos to him for at least making it look like he cares about what his people think.

are you calling me a name caller? :eek: :p

. . ."covers just fallacies" (?) That is a (weak) sub-set, cherry-picked in an attemptto serve his arguments.

Damn straight, skippy. Are you suggesting that Afghans had more freedom when women would be killed if they were suspected of schooling girls ? Do you not see the threat to our country from imported opium products?

I will say, you have some logic in demonstating "freedom" hypocrisies.
However, you seriously compromise your principals; leaving you open to critism. In fact someone could easly peg you as a long-haired, Drug tote'n, unpatriotic, hippie, commie, pinko, woman hating wanker!

;) . . . just throw'n CJFusco a bone.