SoCal:
To be totally honest with you: I am a conservative, church going, card-carrying registered Republican. I believe President Bush is doing the right thing by keeping pressure on Iraq and the UN to resolve this matter ASAP. So if you're directing your last rant towards me, hey: you're preachin' to the choir, buddy! Also: I left the public school system after kindergarten! I went to a Catholic grade school, Christian JR & SR high school, and a Christian College. My dad's a retired Protestant minister, I have done several short term over-seas missions trips, and I am presently a youth group counselor at my church. So be careful who you call a "liberal socialist wanker!"

Nobody is asking you to have the warm fuzzies. Nobody is asking you to adhere to communism. Nobody is trying to recruit you as an AlQueda operative.

All I'm asking you is to cool off a bit, and calm down your posts. Politics is a touchy thing, especially nowadays. Obviously, there are disagreements here: they will happen. Present your side, but quit the personal attacks: they only diminish your opinion and clog the bandwidth.

While I disagree with CJFusco's beliefs about what should be done in this present crisis, that doesn't mean I'm going to slam him personally or rant and rave. Rather, I participate in a mature exchange of beliefs. Please do the same.
-Zoltan.

I agree with Z-Man 99.99% of the time...
However due to the "heated exchanges" and the questionable relevance of the subject matter IMHO this tread should have been dump into the "OT basement" some time ago.

Standing ovation for SoCal. If you want to bring up oil... French companies have approximately $60 billion dollars worth of undisclosed oil contracts with Saddam Hussein. France wants to allow a brutal and dangerous dictator to go unchecked … and it’s all because of oil. If there is an Iraqi regime change France would lose its oil contracts and thus they would lose companies, which in turn would bring all of this into the limelight and have French politicians' head's rolling.

The United States said it was going to leave the Iraqi oil fields in the hands of the Iraqi people. Go look it up, but thats something the liberal media doesn't want to talk about because that would hurt their biggest (shallow) anti war tool.

Well I don't see why you would be so angered by a post about POLITICS that you would leave a PORSCHE web site. Just because you don't agree with someone's beliefs doesn't mean you can't shoot the poop about cars once in awhile. I don't take anything that the opposing argument has said personally, even when it was directed at me (which many of SoCal's have been). I don't care if SoCal does think I'm a "liberal socialist wanker"; I still respect his good taste in cars and the expansive knowledge he has about them. Why? Because our discussions of politics and cars have NOTHING TO DO WITH ONE ANOTHER. I would hate myself if I grew animosity toward another Pelican Parts member just because his beliefs differed from mine (even if he did begin calling me names) because these beliefs have nothing to do with loving Porsches.

Scott: It may wind up there soon, especially if it becomes any more irrelevant! :D

Cheers,
-Z.

Thank you, Sternn...
 

I thank you Sternn for bringing this discussion back to something relavent. We need to worry not only about what we do to other countries in our efforts to squash terrorism, but we also need to worry about what we do to ourselves in the process.

The terrorists will have won when my helpful local representative from the Homeland Security Department walks up to me and says:

"Guten Tag. Papiere, Bitte."

I pity him the new hole he will get.

Do you actually believe the men in leather trench coats and knee high leather boots will come knocking? If that does happen I certainly am with you in seeing to it that his hole is nice and snug, but otherwise I think its pretty far fetched....not out of the question but far fetched. They would have to ban firearms first. God-forbid that ever happen.

That's definitely far fetched. They will almost certainly not be wearing knee high boots. The rest is beginning to seem more likely all the time. Homeland Security, and as CJ mentioned, the Patriot Act, suggest to me that the government is encroaching more and more aggressively on the rights and liberties which we have come to take for granted. If we continue to assume that the government is benevolent and will always act in our best interest, we will forfeit said rights and liberties. It's easy and tempting to sit back and say that "they" will never let that happen, but "they" is us.

Firearms ownership is the flag...
 

Right on the money. Our continued ownership of firearms in the United States is the best indicator of how much freedom we will be able to maintain. I am certain that every member of this BBS, and everybody else in the US is within the statute of limitations on some sort of crime. Probably, many of us are currently doing something illegal.

The reason that these ends are not pursued to the extent that is possible is because it is dangerous. It is dangerous to arrest 5000 people for owning claw foot bathtubs. It is dangerous to arrest 100000 people for having sex on Sunday.

Freedomless America Scenario:

Knock, knock...

The homeowner opens the door. Two guys in suits. Red arm band around their arms with S.S. (little h in front...really hard to see.) printed on it.

"Sir, we noticed you and your wife participating in an anti-something demonstration on the local college campus last week."

"Why, Yes. Yes, we were. Can I help you with something?"

"Well, our administration isn't that particular anti-something this week."
"Yup. We would appreciate it if you and your wife would no longer go to demonstrations like that without our permission in the future."

"Umm, I will do as I please."

"Well sir, it would seem that you and your wife have been doing a plethora of illegal things."
"Yup, you guys were watching TV at 7:52 last night. That's a capitol offense. Gas chamber was what happened to the last two we caught doing that."
"All we really want is your cooperation, cur. We could forget about all of this if you will be a nice little sheep and just keep up the good grazing. Don't cause trouble. That type of thing."

Cursing by the homeowner is now heard... Him and his wife no longer do anything politically unacceptable.

Such a thing couldn't happen today. Instead of the homeowner cursing, it would go more like this:

"Suuure. We can accomodate you guys real well. You won't have to worry about us anymore."
"By the way... Do you guys know anything about firearms safety? I am trying to clean my gun, and would like some help with the procedure. For example, is it dangerous for me to point the loaded gun at your heads with the hammer back, safety off, and my really shaky finger on the trigger?"

BLAM...Whups, had an accident.....BLAM....Man, I am no good at this gun cleaning thing.

DAMN, I miss osamas video!!! Did anyone see it? What did he say? Is he with sadam or not? Some people said that he is and some say that he did not say anything about being with sadam. I figured there are going to be people that want him to partner up with sadam so bad that no matter what he says in the video that "He's with sadam, yup,... no doubt about it!!!". You know what i mean?

well said, couldn't have put it better. to add a bit, france, due to their financial interests, will be "on board" when i comes down to it, if they want to salvage their investments. must be tough to be the head of a socialist government at a time when reality clashes with unrealistic politics.

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He called Saddam an infidel. It makes perfect sense to me. This is the same man that denied he had any part in 9-11 then he admitted to it once he was had. Osama is not that stupid. He knows what the effect of a comment like that would have.

"The United States said it was going to leave the Iraqi oil fields in the hands of the Iraqi people. Go look it up, but thats something the liberal media doesn't want to talk about because that would hurt their biggest (shallow) anti war tool. "

Well yeah, and the United States also said that it was going to give up its interests in Vietnam after we withdrew our troups. It didn't happen. The Bush administration said there would be no new taxes. Another lie. And I'm not saying that the US will comandeer Iraq's oil; no way that we could do that and stay friendly with the rest of the world. We just want to make sure we don't lose access to that oil. If you read the first page of this post, you will see we already went over this. Even so, I would not believe everything that the government tells me, if I were you.

I would definately Enlist. I am almost 38 years old, if the governmant would take me, I'd go tomorrow. I'd give everything that I have to give to protect the lives of my wife, children and family members. This is a no brainer for me. My wife and kids would be sad , maybe, but would they be better off if no one Enlisted, and something were to happen because we didn't have enough of a United front? I'd do anything that I could to ensure my Families safety and well being, and If Had to give my life to protect them, I would, how could someone rationally look at this with a "better him/her than me" attitude. These are selfish people that'd throw their kids in front of them if they were being attacked in anyway.

Yes I'd go, and I'd hope that everyone I know would be right next to me willing to give what they had to defend their way of life.
I am also afraid of what is looming over our heads right now. I'm going to Home Depot tomorrow to buy rolls of duct tape and Polyethelene sheeting to tape all of my windows and doors tightly.

I do not think the war will be fought solely in Iraq. Yes it will be over pretty quickly there, but the real terror will happen here. This is just my feeling, please, I hope that I am not causing anyone any unnecessary fear. I was raised to understand and acknowledge all of your emotions, fear, confidence, pride, love, hatred, pain.. everything. Once again, I will do everything in my power possible to protect my family and OUR way of life, no one is going to change the way that I choose to vote, what kind of car I choose to drive, what religion I choose to parctice, or choose not to practice, choose my food, choose which cell phone plan I am to have ( if I choose one at all) what I can watch on television, or what kind of clothes I can wear. If they would like to try, I have a size 10 shoe waiting for them, greased up and ready to be shoved up their uneducated ass.

I was born in this country and I would give my life for it. My family lives very well here, I call it home, foreigners call it the promised land.

Frank B

I just came across the following quotation, which seems relevant:

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger".

-Reichsmarschal Hermann Goering (Nuremburg Trials)

but is that relevant? wasn't that criminal referring to the jews, who were villified as a threat, but of course were not. and do we not have a real threat here in our time? september 11th ring a bell?

here's a quote for you:

Speak softly and carry a big stick.
-President Theodore Roosevelt

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It is relevant to Americans being asked (i.e., told) to give up their rights in the name of security, and not to question it, and it gives us an idea to where that leads.

"That criminal" wasn't referring to anyone. He was speaking in general.

Name one sane leader of another country that our government plotted the assassination of. No I wouldn't classify France and Germany as a bunch of long haired, pot smoking peaceniks. Although, alot of them are. I reserve that term for the anti war protesters that sympathize with Saddam. And besides, I couldn't care less what those countries think.

We are going to war. It is as simple as that. There will always be dissenters and those that hate the current President due to ideological viewpoints. In the end, people like me will laugh in the face of those that smoked their pot, chanted their peace songs and wouldn't pick up a gun to defend this country if death was staring at them in the face.

Stephen

jriley, the nuremburg trials were about the atrocities committed against the jews by the nazis. goering wasn't imprisoned just because he was a german, but one who was a key player in promoting their evil propoganda that set the jews up as both enemy & scapegoat. you also didn't answer my other question.

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Exactly why I couldn't care less about France. France cares more about their deep pockets than keeping the world a safer place to live.

Stephen