My wife says she does not worry about me running off with another woman - she knows that I am very devoted to her. But when I hear an air cooled Porsche go by, my head snaps around instantly!

So, what is it that appeals to me about Porsches? I like the sound of the air cooled engines, the body styles (I like all Porsche bodies), and the fact that they do not look like every other car or SUV on the road.

I would not put a Chevy engine in my Porsche because I would lose one of the things I love about the car. However, I respect the right of others to do whatever they want to their cars.

I am thinking about replacing the 30 year old Blaupunct radio in my 911 with a modern CD stereo that works. Does this make me a hack? What if I repaint the car, replacing a tired chipped paint job with a new shiny one? If I replace my Sportomatic with a 915 transmission, does the value of the car go through the floor? I replaced the tired Marelli distributor with a Bosch - I guess that was a sin, wasn't it?

Even though I do not want a Chevy engine in my 911, I guess I am not a purist either because I am not too concerned that all of the parts in my car match.

The bottom line might be that some of us are purists, some are hot rodders, and some are in between. All of us want to enjoy our cars, but that means something different to each of us!

------------------
Bob Thayer
1971 911T
rthayer@hdrinc.com

Sometimes to gain perspective you have to look at the problem from the reverse side. I dearly love my 79 Sc for what it is. Would never think of doing the V8 conversion. That doesn't make the conversion wrong. However, my point is: (reverse)...How many Camaro or Mustang conversions have you heard of where they have taken the Chevy or Ford engine out and replaced it with an engine from a 928 (v8)or tried to stuff a 911 engine in one? Or dear God...American sacrilege...stuffing a 928 engine in a Vette??? I think its because the name Porsche and the distinctive styling (not to mention the high price of admission) make the car desireable (very). You stick a V8 in to replace a blown engine...(low $ replacement for a hight dollar one)...So you drive a "Porsche"...(ummm maybe!!!) Sort of like glamour shots photos...can make a real "dog" look great!!!! (hope I didn't offend anyone...just my 2 cents)

isn't the next generation of 911 going to have a v8?

------------------
77911s

So far to date the only stock production Porsche engine to exceed the power of the stock Corvette V8 is the 993 Twin Turbo. This is why the swap only goes one way. If Porsche made 400+hp motors for less than $10K then someone would find a way to swap it into a Chevy. Human nature.

As far as general cross-make swaps are concerned I've never heard anyone call the original 427 Cobra a bastardized AC Ace.

It's possible, but I don't think the next incarnation of the 911 needs a V8; they seem to be doing just fine with the current iteration of the venerable flat-six.

What will a V8 do that the current flat-six can't?

Porsche are certainly bringing back V8 powerplants for the SUV and this proposed supercar, but there has been no indication that a version of these V8 engines (which are all going to be based on the old 928 engine) will ever find its way into a 911.

If one does then you know that Porsche value the precious North American market more than their own ethos, which admittedly, is the market that allows them to afford their ethos, and the market that may (finally) force Porsche to kill off the car that defines them in favor of yet another gratuitous attempt to create one more interpretation of the Corvette.

Personally, I see no advantage of replacing the rear-engined 996 with a front-engined car - both are imperfect, or rather, less than ideal.

A V8 Boxster, well, now that's a different story...




[This message has been edited by Matt Holcomb (edited 08-27-2000).]

Stormcrow defines the resistance to your conversion and why I can't swallow the idea of the butchery. Go to autocross sometime and you'll see Vettes smoking the place. Good old American Iron. Honda S2000 with 240 horsies and all the RPM you could want if that's your thing.
I picked Porsche for the whole package. The same guy who goes to a junk yard weekends to dig up old 356 gauges rather than put gauges from AutoZone in his car is the same guy who wants, with all its imperfection, an air cooled boxer engine in his Porsche. By design, with reasonable mods, driving the Legend.
The problem with your post is where it's posted. Here. There's nothing magical about the butchery. You could also bolt a rocket on the rear or turn it into an electric car. You could put a lawnmower engine in it, or you could take a baseball bat to it. We'd all think the same thing: One more member of the family just passed away. In my mind, it's no longer a Porsche....it's a kit car http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Sorry for the delay, but at the request of leon, I have posted a couple of pictures of the conversion

http://members.aol.com/paddlerjim/v8_911c.jpg

http://members.aol.com/paddlerjim/v8_911a.jpg

Jim - VERY NICE JOB!! That is just beautiful. Looks like a first class installation. Man do I wish you could get the V8 torque out of an F6 that the small block chevy supplies for the price of a set of Webers! You may have just pushed me over the edge. Anyone want to buy a freshly rebuilt 3.3L 930 motor?

Please to understand, this is NOT my 911 (I wish it was). This 911 belongs to the originator of this post. I just placed a picture of his car at the request of several folks in the post. Keith was nice enough to help me to convert my 914 from a 2.0 to a 3.0 SC engine. I don't wish to think what it will cost me to keep up with him on an autocross course or drivers ed. I would probably need 350+ HP

Looks nice..

What did you do for the exhaust?
Custome headers? Stock manifolds??

Just wondering how it was done.

Thanks
Bruce

http://www.oz.net/~daveb/images/p9311_1.jpg

http://www.oz.net/~daveb/project.htm

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Jack Olsen
1973 911 T sunroof coupe

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 09-15-2000).]

Where i come from i have see rotary engines on suzukis,toyotas,datsun, i have see chevy engines on this same cars but for some reason this chevy in a PORSCHE is just hard to understand.

From http://www.oz.net/~daveb/project.htm :

Range
Best so far (5/17/97), 15.1 miles. The end point for range is rather subjective. Near the end of the charge, performance drops off fairly sharply but the car will still go, albeit slowly, for quite a while. Poor range thought to be due to wheel/brake drag.

------------------------------

HAHA! And you guys were complaining about 14 MPG.... http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

blue

I have not followed this post in a while and am suprised to find that it is still running.

I will start new post after the Drivers ed at CMP in oct.

New modifications include the swap to Trick Flow G2 twisted wedge aluminum cylinder heads that yeilded about 50 or 60Hp for around 1,100.00 talk about cheap Hp. Now I can smoke the 255/40/17 S-o2's with a prod of the gas peddle.
Brakes are to be updated to four piston Rebco Outlaw calipers and Carrera rotors, will post info about how this turns out. The conversion should only cost about 500.00 and should really improve the brake system.
Added an oil cooler to help lower oil temps on the track. Discovered though research that the oil can run 70-80 degrees hotter than the coolant and 270 degree oil temps are not acceptable.
The only event I have attended was the NCAC auto cross in Ashville, NC. Although I was not the fastest Porsche there I was a lot faster than before the conversion. There was no tail happy monster just great torque out of the turn, even kept its manners thought the slalem.
Will keep you all updated.

Keith

If you ask anyone to be 100% honest, they will tell you that they will or have done a V-8 conversion for economical reasons. It is true that for the money you can get more hp gfor the buck. I asked a my best friend who is doing one in a 914. If you were well off would you still do it?? He said "no, I'd put a 3.6 in my car." I have a 79' 911 SC that eventually will be specatular, I am having anziano do a one of a kind strosek body conversion in metal that i have been designing for nearly 10 years, 993 Intrior with WORKING modern /c and heater system, REAL steel center tunnel, interior, 19"x13" rear rims etc. I will NOT put a V-8 in it but rather have Todd at Protomotive buld a 700HP motor. a V-8 with thta HP would coast half, but, well, you got the idea.

DWB

I had better return my leprosy model 2.7 back to original. anybody got a set of thermal reactors?--185/70 tyres? I'll drain the Mobil one and put some recycled oil from the gas station in-- oh and the swepco will have to come out of the 915-- damn.!! I'll also rip off the pax side rear vision mirror so I cant see. all that should double the value!!!!
Bob g.

I can't help but to have an actual physical reaction of disgust in seeing two rows of 4 pistons pointed upward in the back of a 911 no matter how clean it looks. I guess to each his own, but ick. I think people should be able to do what they want with their cars, however it would be more respectful to the marque and it's enthusiasts if they only used the base, common models as a beginning for any major projects.

Keith Ray
79 930

Ditto all RarlyL8 has had to say.

ks911: I have a couple of questions for you, if you do not mind.

1) have you done anything so drastic that the car could never be returned to stock? - providing that you kept all the Porsche stuff.

2) I believe that Dr. Porsche used a flat six to keep the motor mass low. Has the V8 changed the bias of the car very much? I am not just talking decreasing radii here, but rather overall driving comfort.

3) what do expect your final costs to be?

I know very well that Porsches engines are a marvel and put together like a Swiss watch. But it is hard to imagine needing to speed several thousand dollars to get 350 HP out of such a fine motor. That would ruin the original configuration, would it not? Hell, you can accidently build 400HP out of a LS1 for little more than lunch money.

I must admit, this string has my blood running a little hot and my dreams are becoming littered with bow ties... I just get tired of needing to adjust valves every time I start the car.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

Well I am a fan of porchev if the motor in my 911sc was to blowup that would be the most cost effective swap. Nice job on the conversion. And to all you purists out there I think it was all summed up in a short sentence "its only a car". The poster of this message just shared his experiences with us and did not brag about his swap or even mention anything about being superior to the flat 6.Please keep us posted on how the car does on a daily basis...is it reliable??? Any chance of posting some pics of the undercarriage. I have pretty much been flamed by some of the purists in the corvette club when I bought my 911 but I am a car enthusiast not just a porsche or corvette enthusiast...different strokes for different folks.

Solution: If you are installing a v-8, pick up a project car that nobody wants. Don't cut up a good P-car merely to increase cheap HP.

While a v-8 "p-car" would be a fun novelty item, but it could never replace my SC as The Driving Experience.
---------------
Paul
78SC Targa

Nice car ks911! You get Porsche styling, handling and prestige with an awesome v8 rumble.Imagine you would supercharge it! Wheelies! Sure the F6 sounds great but so does the V8. I wonder if certain people would get worked up if you had installed a 928 engine...
Bottom line is, you have a fast, good-looking CAR that you built yourself (how many people can say that?) and are having fun with.

Mike
86 Carrera t (notice the t anyone?)

Good luck with it. At least it's not the same monstrosity posted a ways back where some old guy from Mississippi or somet place, put a chevy engine in the Front trunk of a 70s 911. Then he added all this stupid body crap that was square or something. It had this blower coming out of the front trunk.
You know, I still can't get the picture out of my head. It's like that Mpeg that floated around a while back where some monkey stuck his right hand up his ass and smelled it, then fell off the tree. Like that Mpeg, I can't erase from my mind, the image of that f'ing blower coming out of the front trunk of that 911.
After that old guy did that, I wonder if he too, stuck a wrench up his ass and smelled it.

------------------
Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet
75 914 1.8

[This message has been edited by Kurt B (edited 02-05-2001).]

Hello everybody,

I was a little supprised to see this post still active, and I see the judgemental people are still out in force. Bottom line, it is my car and I love it,,,get over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To the unjudgemental people here is an update. I have tracked the car at Carolina Motorsports Park and was very pleased. The car really didn't handle any differantly than it did before the swap, I had changed to 26mm rear torson bars so that kept everything neutral. The weight bias is 63/37 which is the same at a 930 I think or real close to it. The brake upgrade works well and at a cost of around 1000.00. As far as drivability the car, it is quieter than a F6 at highway speeds, remember there is no fan spinning. And the torque makes it very easy to drive in traffic because there is plenty of torque to pull from 1,000rpm.
This car started out as an abused 76' 911S with a blown motor and a worn out trans. And if I choose to go Porsche power tomarrow I just remove everything, change the gas tank and replace the piece of metal that I removed and saved from the front of the trunk, since this acts to let air get to radiator. Then in goes the F6, I didn't even cut the wiring harness.
As for the cost I think I have around 7,000.00 in the conversion which includes 1,700.00 worth of gears and a overhaul for the trans. Clutch was kind of steep at around 700.00 for the kevlar disc and stronger pressure plate, turns out no stock Porsche 225mm clutch can handle 435 ft\lb of torque. The good news is that even if I blow a hole the size of VW in the side of the block the cost of repair is a joke compared the last Porsche engine I smoked.
I hope you all find this enteresting, and if you wish to post some more neg. stuff I really don't care I stopped being influinst by other poeple many, many years ago.

Just what I meant. I would probably do the same.

Suspending judgment on historical or aesthetic grounds, I'd like to see a sheet of stats on the thing, like:

0-60 times
0-100 times
quarter mile times
top speed

honest horsepower at the crank and at wheels
overall weight
accurate front-rear weight ratio (from corner balancing scales)
lateral g capability

I'll loan out my g-tech pro, in the interests of science (or, for the critics, here: in the interest of studying something in the same fashion the NTSB studies crash sites).

This is clearly not what a lot of 911 owners want to see happen to the rapidly-diminishing pool of the world's air-cooled Porsches. But then again, 911s get junked all the time, and the 74-77 American cars get junked more than most. You clearly are taking care of this car, although not in the fashion that makes this board feel most comfortable.

It's a nice looking paint job.

Do you do anything to the oil pan to correct for G forces?

------------------
Jack Olsen
1973 911 T (3.6) sunroof coupe
jackolsen@mediaone.net

[This message has been edited by JackOlsen (edited 02-05-2001).]

Excellence was expected???????????

[This message has been edited by ras911 (edited 02-05-2001).]

Yes RAS - that is why Porsche left room for a V8

It's......

THE THREAD THAT WOULD NOT DIE

Gawd, check the post dates on this bad mother!

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Mark Szabo
1986 911 Targa 3.2
1987 Escort 5-speed 1.9
The Porsche Owners Gallery

ks911,

As a general rule, I believe that if you haven't got anything good to say then it's better not to say anything. However, since you've said you don't care what the anti-Chev brigade has to say then it leaves me free to say this - you are a butcher.

Why the hell do you have a Porsche in the first place if you like pushrod v-8s? It's akin to having a Supermodel with a 1st class from Oxford in Latin for a girlfriend and then slapping on a set of Pamela Anderson boobs and transplanting hooker's brain in so that it's easier and cheaper for you to get your kicks in the sack with her.

Pushrod v-8s go with leaf springs and live axles as it suits the primitive power delivery characteristics ( wow at 2000rpm and breathless at 5000rpm). Why put an ancient, top heavy v-8 in the back of an air-cooled flat 6? For the nearly 6k you spent excluding the trans. mods, you could have sold your 2.7 and added the proceeds and a bit more towards a 3.6 swap and got a well respected, near 300hp true Porsche instead of a car that will get you sniggers, incredulity, bewilderment, disgust and nausea from the Porsche and Chevy groups.

"Its only worth doing if it's done properly". These are words worth remembering. If not I'll just go out and get a Fiero based F40 replica, put a built pushrod v-8 in it and say look, I've got more torque at 2500rpm than those know nothing Ferrari engineers and it only cost me 5% of the real thing. If your budget limits your Porsche power options, live with it like 99.99% of P owners do. Please don't butcher your car (no matter how "neatly") and expect kudos and a pat on the back from those that appreciate that 911s'have flat 6 engines.

i find it amusing and a little sad that some people would use the word "butcher" when describing an automotive modification. glad to see were all keeping level heads.

personally i wouldn't do a v8 mod in a 911 (but WOULD in a 914, 924, 944 or 928) because of the already strong rear weight bias. i can speak firsthand of the tricky and frankly negative handling aspects of the 911 as i drove mine at sears point this past sunday. i can imagine it would only be stronger in a 930 or 911 v8 conversion.

a 911 isn't going to out-handle most performance cars anyways, but you'll be smoking virtually any car in straight line acceleration.

Back in the late sixties a buddy of min e had an aluminum bodied Ferrari 250 shortwheelbase that Bob Grossman had campaigned. We loved driving that machine, but when the Pontiac GTO s wanted to drag, he would say, "Road course, top end or disconnect 3 or 4 of those plug wires so we both are running on 180 cubic inches." At that time the value of his car was roughly equivelent to the price of a new muscle car.

I'm amazed at the Porsche nazis here. So what if he modifies his car? so what if it's not a true Porsche? Get a grip on what's important. So what if the motivation is economic. Yeah he's too poor to do it the right way, if he had the money he'd do a 3.6 TT. As if not having gobs money to burn is some character flaw. Perhaps telling others how much you're going to spend is more demonstrative of a character deficiency

Some people may still enjoy driving fast, but not have lots of money, or concern about factory purity. A V8 seems a quick and easy way to go towards providing the enjoyment that he's after, which is driving a P car with lots of torque, that doesn't burn much oil, and adjusts it's own valves.

a Porsche with a Chevy engine is technically a "Porsche-Chevy".

a Cooper body with a Porsche engine is technically a "Pooper"

i dunno, i'd rather be in a Porsche-Chevy than a pooper. you now join the ranks of Spice Chevy, Rondeau Porsche, Fabcar Porsche, Lola Porsche, and Kremer Porsche. as everyone knows, those are all VERY potent cars.

obin

Now I feel liberated. I used to worry about other's reactions because I used a wing instead of a ducktail on my RS lookalike...
May the festivities continue!

I must be the Porsche butcher from Hell. I took a no rust, bone stock, low mile, one owner SC and did the flair fandango. Changed the most disgusting color scheme I've ever seen into a real eye popper.

Now I've got a fresh 930 for it and am quite seriously considering selling it. Obviously the money issue is passed tense. The motor is mine. But the cost of upkeep and upgrades is beyond resonable. The 911 is only a car. It is an extremely cool car, but that's it. I may already have the worlds most expensive SC. Adding a 3.3T will only up the money pit total $15K by the time 400HP is realised. I must admit thought that I cannot bring myself to put a small block in it. The sound of the 6 and the look of the engine help define the car. When you can't decide what to do, do nothing. So the 3.3T will be asembled and sit until I make up my mind. My old street machine sits right next to the 911 in the garage. $10K worth of blown aluminum big block would go a long way in the scare-the-****-out-of-you department. Hmmmmmmmmmm

<img height="318" width="468" src="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=752812&a=5474180&p=39052878&Sequence=1/IMG">

As a new member of this BBS, I was disappointed at the (few) negative responses.

We have been around vintage racing in the U.S. and Europe for years, and the one lesson that I have learned from people who have guest-driven my cars is that everyone has his or her own idea of what constitutes a "correct" vehicle. Some of most well known drivers and collectors are also some of the people least prone to criticize others, as long as someone does not intentionally misrepresent a vehicle. Granted, the owner of a bogus car who gets caught lying is going to get nailed...sometimes hard. However, I would rather have one more person active in the motorsports hobby with an honest, if incorrect vehicle than loose that person's involvement to some other activity. After all, this is supposed to be about having fun.

We need three pages to this thread so I will throw my opinion in.

Would I add a V-8 to my SC? No. No way. I enjoy the air-cooled motor and like to work on it because it is basic and can live a long life. I also like screamer motors which the pushrod V-8 will not do.

Do I like American iron? Yes, I use a '71 Chevy C-10 as my daily driver with an ancient three-on-the-tree. It is very reliable and easy to work on. Plus I need it for my business, so practical also.

Do I drive a bastardized SC? Yes, I ripped the A/C out, have a Nardi steering wheel, K&N air filter, aftermarket stereo, Mobil 1 and Swepco 201. I plan to bastardize it more with fiberglass front and rear bumpers, tower brace, supertrapp exhaust, and sport seats w/ harness. Yes, it might drop resale value, but I do not plan on getting rid of it.

I like air-cooled cars that handle well. This means I must drive a Porsche 911. If I had to buy a 2001 sports car I would have to go with a Corvette or Boxster. Porsche with water is not my thing, it is just a car. The air-coolers are magic.

If Porsche makes that SUV I may rip all the "Porsche" logos off my car also!!! GD sacriledge!! I cannot believe BMW sold out to this fad of ill-handling, gas-guzzling, no-braking, and soccer mom driving SUV crap. Be practical and get a minivan because you know that SUV will never see off road conditions.

My only flame is that ks911 used a steal block instead of a custom aluminum mouse block. That may take the weigh issue out of it? Granted the CG will still be higher.

ks911 - Do you want to get rid of the blown 2.7L cheap? If so shoot me an e-mail!

Peas,

------------------
Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

I dunno... I like he Porsche 911 as is. almost any style. There are some I like better than others, but I like them all. There are also things that I want to do to my '83SC to make it non-stock. I added H-4's, I want 17" rims, I want an upgraded oil cooler, upgraded brakes, and maybe new seats. Most of these would be "permissible" by the majority of you, but it sure as hell wouldn't be a stock SC.
I would rather see someone take an otherwise abused or neglected body and put some time and care into it, than trash it or beat it into the ground. What ever you do with your car is your choice. I may not like it, but you don't care what I think, and when it comes down to it, I don't give a sh** what you think. I am always happy to share information as are most people. Give your opinions, be funny about it, and we all learn and enjoy.
Summary: I don't like what you did, but I support your right to do it. I'm glad you weren't just a maniac butcher, and you spent plenty of time and money on it. Congrats, and I hope you enjoy your success!

Magilla

Until Dr. Porsche flips the bill for my poor 2.7 problems I'll agree with any conversion.

77 911S

From what I can tell, one of the main reasons for converting a Porsche is the cost of maintaining the existing equipment.

Porsches are complicated machines. Set a Porsche engine alongside a 350 and you definitely see a difference.

That being said, I think there is a lot of fustration in owning a Porsche because of this. Not every nut driving, wrench toting mechanic can work on it let alone diagnosis its symptons. So what does that say about us as owners.

If we have the capabilities of keeping that machine in top running condition, and can diagnos and make repairs, that defnintely has something to say about our capabilities.

Look at the wiring diagrams, or follow the fuel flow. You just can't take the car to a garage down the street and say fix it.

Although I disagree with people wanting to make changes to their P machines, and I can understand why. Don't take this the wrong way, but fustration makes us do things we normally would't do especially when it comes to solving P problems.

Steve