OK VIPRdude we can put this to rest now, you got your 200.

KS911, bet you're happy you started this one! HA!

[This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 02-27-2001).]

Ok, 201:
Rarly, I do all the work on my cars, (except for body work). But I can't help it, every time I try and convert to the big muscle I feel like I'm driving an overpowered sled. I always seem to go back to the nimble feel of the flat six. Have you ever driven on the "million dollar" stretch of I-15 between St. George, Utah and Las Vegas, Nevada?? Its a thrill in a Porsche, or even a hot rod VW, but you'd never get the same feeling doing it in a sled. The worse mistake I ever made was trading my 356 for that Chevelle. You live, you learn, and you don't butcher. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Thanks guys I have rec'd a few emails offering help with my engine swap. This thread is actually the best one I have ever read.

Yea, Aircool and when a 914 with a 377 SBC rolls past you in a corner (having alot more fun)....you'll be thinking..how'd he do that? Thats not a 914-6....Well...Well...I'll show him, my radio is blaupunct, dam I forgot I put in a Kenwood last year, well.. my engine sounds good..Well I feel better anyway becuase at least MY car only wheels from a different year, aftermarket engine parts, italian built racing seats, jap tires, korean radio, taiwan carpet, shocks from somewhere, bushings from a plastic co in utah, seat covers for nintendo, a well made roll bar from Eds garage, a deck lid 20 yrs newer, window rubber from Hong Kong, and most of its original fender lips cut off.

I said from the start, and I'll say it more specific, I LOVE THE FLAT 6, I just can't get the power (350+lbs torque) without thowing old nuggets out the window AND if I did throw the nuggets I would probably end up along side the highway in route to Iowa.

It's amazing, I guess I can toss any part of the 911 chassis into the trading parts bin and carry around whats original on the flat 6 engine around to track events and be ok with some guys. Does that mean a corvair with a 911 engine is a 911? A 911 with a SBC is not a Chevy? What is a 914 with a factory installed 8 cyl?

Interesting no one has given the old Porsche mechanic ks911 any reason to believe he's really not as happy as he thinks he is (is it just his imagination?).

Butchery, well it's all perspective. If I can return it to stock, then I personally don't see the butchery. Especially if it's devoid of guadyness, looks stock, to include the ORIGINAL fender lips. I have even been offered two different deck lids (for real cheap) a whail tail and a fiberglass RSR version, nope I'll keep the stock deck lid.
change the front fenders, nope. Axe any of the body lines, nope. I like the design the Porsche family gave the car to BUTCHER it. I wish the Butchers would please stop cuts pieces off the 911 and adding gaudy homemade stuff, its tearing me apart inside.

225?

ks911...call that #$@&'n turbo shop and tell them to ship by 3/1 or forget it!! There are other turbo shop's out there.

VW, you apparently still don't get it. Have you ever even owned a VW? And why do you have a radio in your car?

Hey A-C, noticed you occupation. Are you a porn star? HA!
Now I understand where you're coming from. Yes, the folks that like the nimble and tossable feel of the lightweight small cars probably wouldn't like the big muscle cars. Each has their own following and personality. I'm more on the other side of the fence. I've been hooked on the HP drug for a long time and nomatter how sexy the 911 is, I just have to have more. Coming to grips with the price of the addiction is another issue. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

My favorite engine swaps:

Jag V12 in a Corvair:
http://infoweb.magi.com/~gaube/corvair/V-12-01.html

SHO engine in a TR8:
http://www.team.net/TR8/Conversions/SHO.html

SHO engine in a Probe:
http://www.harborside.com/~lhumbert/perform.html

SHO engine in a Festiva (Check Beck's SHOgun):
http://www.shotimes.com/SHO4_jayl.html

SHOtus (SHO Esprit):
http://hometown.aol.com/shotus/auto/index.htm

SHO in a Cobra:
http://www.shotimes.com/SHO0cobra.html

okok I'm biased.
Kurt

VW@ - Just to clarify on your point #4. The Flat 6 is a SOHC design with two individual cams... If the Flat 6 was of a DOHC setup it would have 4 cams. The mouse or rat is not a SOHC engine, it is a pushrod design with one cam below the heads.

I think an important point to consider is the cubic inches of the engines versus HP output. No Porsche engine that I know of has bulged out to 5.7L..? I think for its respective production time period the Porsche cars have had above average hp per cubic inch. Of course as technology advances the high HP of yesturyear is not much by todays comparisons. I think a better comparison is todays Porsche Flat-6 versus the best Detriot has to offer.

Again, to get a mouse to the same tolerances and high RPM reliability as a Porsche Flat-6 you are talking serious money.

Does my chevy mouse leak oil? Yes, a little around the valve covers and oil pan. Do I care? No.

Enough with the soap opera and 200 stuff already!

Peas!

Geez you guys, away for 3 wks and catching up on the threads - this must be the longest of all time!
Ok.... so I guess it's..

"The Purists VS "The HP/Torque addicts"
http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/rolleyes.gif
Hmmmm..... where do I sit on that fence?
Me I am fighting a battle from within whether to take the plunge and sell my Carrera and get a 930 which will already be up on standard power and have a 5 spd tranny plus have a lower boost cut in.
But I am fighting with my own concience
"Is it all worth it!?"
Are we ever satisfied with our "lot?"
Ask your self that one before you dig deep into that wallet!

A Porsche does more than just go fast in a straight line.

Steve

Since this thread looks to be in imminent danger of dying I'll step in and stir it up a bit.

The SBC crowd have been coming up with an incredible amount of cr*p about the so called superiority over the Porsche f6. Stuff like an sbc conversion will whip a 930 is just total fantasy when you compare like with like. The best pre-LS1 vette engine has 305 bhp and a 930 with just headers and a boost controller has an easy 350bhp+. Even the fancy pants Z06 vette has a measly 385bhp from it's 5.7 litre pushrod POS and the best that the tuners can get for it is about 445 bhp with the Lingenfelter 383ci conversion which costs 15k installed. For 15k, a 930 motor is already pushing near 500bhp.

What about the ultimate vette motor- the ZR1 LT-5 with the Lotus designed quad cam 32valve heads. The full house 640bhp 510tq Lingenfelter conversion costs 38k. For that amount, a 930 motor will have 900bhp+. What's even worse is that A BRITISH COMPANY DESIGNED THE BEST AMERICAN ENGINE. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

As for statements like "my sbc can rev to 6k rpm", well there is a difference in an engine able to do it and an engine that relishes it. A pushrod engine with a 5 bearing crank and nearly 6 litres will NEVER be a free revving engine and you need revs to make power. Simply put, power is revs x torque so having 300lb/ft at 2200 rpm is no use if it's choking at 5200rpm.

The 911 is the finest sports car ever made because of its engine. Sports cars have free revving engines and the thrill with sports cars is that the engine gets stronger and sweeter the higher up the rev range it goes. Pushrod v8's were never designed to be used in sports cars and definatly not in Porsches. For you Porschev symphatisers, I can see the reason for the swap but do not pretend as some of you have that the bonus lies in any other place than cheaper parts and easier servicing for your mild sbc. For these two reasons, you have sacrificed the soul of the car which is the very reason why the 911 is held in such high esteem in the first place.

Let's look back at the neat butcherwork done to ks 911's car. He paid 6k for the motor to be installed. The money he saves in maintenance will not have been worth it when you consider he could've sold his 2.7 engine and use the cash towards a 3.6 which has modern engine management and also enhances the value of his car. Now he has an asthmatic pushrod engine which has no resale with cheap parts costs which will be good because it's going to break a lot. Dry sump does make a difference if you do track events and you will find sbc engines on track suffer fading oil pressures.

I can't wait for the next 200 posts.

Hey Needa911 good to see you are on the post. To everyone else I have removed the engine and am awaiting a 930 trans from Powerhaus II. The 915 trans is doing fine but I want a stronger box. On the track I want to be able to hammer the gears a little and not have to worry about spitting gears out of the case. Am also changing to Supertrapp mufflers, the exhaust was to quiet, had difficulty hearing the engine with my helmet on. I know that may be hard to believe but the car is very quiet now. Also just purchased RSR front and rear bumpers, I got them from GT Racing and the quality is the best I have seen for fiberglass. Best guess will be a reduction of around 80Ibs, However, after the last drivers ed. my instuctor made a convincing request to install a race roll bar and harnesses. This seemed like a good idea given the capibilities of the car. It is a hobby and not something I wish to get hurt doing, not to mention some poor instuctor that has to ride with me.

I would like to post some pics of the project and its progression but do not know how, if someone will tell me, I post more.

930Fan,

Lets make this very, very clear for some of readers that have enter this post late in the game. I never, ever said the V8 was superior to the F6, only more powerful.

Also maybe you missed the earlier post by another member about the Vette AKA: Cheverolet not loosing a motor at Lemans. So don't give me the it will never hold up routine, I've hear it before. My car now has around 10,000 miles on the conversion, since it was my daily driver up until recently. Many of those miles were driven very hard, and no problems to speak of.

If you think a boosted up 930 will live, run your pre-knock senser car up to around 1.2-1.5 bar, drive it hard for 10k. I test drove one just like that with 58,000 miles and the valve guides smoked like a chimmeny.

About the cost thing. The 6k was for more than just the conversion, that included rebuilt trans, new fuel system, ignition, etc. Thing that I do not have to worry about braking because they are not 10+ years old. That is also a completely rebuilt and modified engine. Yes I performed all work myself so my labor is not included. You will not get a 3.6 in my 76 911 for twice that let alone a rebuilt one, so lets be realistic here and not just pull facts from the air that you can not back-up.

And as for performance. I drove a modified 930 with 350hp and I am telling you it is not the same, trust me, not the same at all.

But lets not just suppose that this is just a V8 stuffed into back with not reguard for any other system. I have upgraded brakes, suspinsion, body, wheels, and most of all safety, so watch what you call butchery.

In reply to Aircool:

I must have typed my last reply incorrectly. Everything after "....you'll be thinking.." is what YOU or someone like you might be thinking. The entire paragraph is a joke on your car, or a similiar person that drives around a 911 that has 25 different manufactur's parts and stick thier nose up at another guys car for changing the engine.

Have I even owed a VW? The answer is yes about a dozen over the past 15 yrs. As a youjgster, when I was not racing with my V8 friends I was arguing with them the atributes of my lightweight aircooled engine.

In reply to Pillow: Are you following this thread? I was replying to some else's posting by pasting thier Point #4. None of those points are mine. I'm just asking what that has to do with this thread.

Concerning your secound point Pillow. No the ONLY thing to compare with the engines, are what's actually going in and what coming out. EVERYTHING ELSE IS EVERYTHING ELSE. My daddy's old oil-burning-valve-cover- leaking pickup truck engine is not getting a power wash and going into the ass end of my 2001 Porche. What?

Serious money? In relation to what, stock parts? Yes. In relation to stock Porche parts? NO. Geez man high RPM aftermarket chevy parts stacked on shelves all around most of my friends garages. As far as stock parts; forged 283 cranks that can be preped for hundreds of runs at 7,000 rpm are usually free to a good home, thus the high rpm 302 becomes viable for a budget builder.

In reply to 930 fan: WHAT? Your comparing oranges to apples too. Drop all of those Motortrend magazines off at your Barber shop. WOW! That was armchair at its best. If you want someone to help you through your learning process it's not a big deal, but please touch bases with an old V8 racer before posting those guffy armchair statements.

930fan cont: On your road to carifying your knowledge- one clue - NEVER say NEVER. If I had a penny for every free revving reliable SBC, everyone on this thread could retire. YES, 930fan there was no typo, free revving and reliable SBC are all over the place. It's no big deal, you just did't grow up with drag racers offering you a beer in the morning. And for the inexperienced, "Drag Racing" is not always synonmous with "built to blow up". If you want a few GOOD texts to read I can send you a short but good list, seriously. it's no big deal.

Hey 930 and similarly informed posters: the old Porsche mechanic ks911 is telling you with race proven accuracy(not only his first hand comparison), 350hp from 930 is NOT comparable to 350 hp from a HiPo SBC. A bit like there's no comparing a SBC to a 350 hp tractor motor (in terms of power band). The big diference here of course is the SBC powerband can easily be designed to fall right where you need it. Two different hp/TORQUE animals, one with a board usable powerband that I want in my car, the other with a track like power band I don't want in my car. "tracklike" does not imply faster at the track either, back to ks911s point.

---> It seems like the posters have stopped reading the BEGINNING of the thread, and just picking out what ever twist they can argue.

How about sticking to ks911s situation and similiar ones. Taking an old aircooled 911 engine and swaping it for a current tech aftermarket built SBC and more common than not the according upgrades that need to be made to the rest of the car.

Well becuase of this post have recieved several helpful emails, thanks. I have also recieved some interesting pictures and when each authors permission hits my inbox I will post them.

[This message has been edited by VW@heart (edited 03-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by VW@heart (edited 03-01-2001).]

Mr. VW, all you have not provided any facts or data to refute what I have said. I do not read MT, just C&D and if you do not like my choice of magazines then it does not matter because what we are debating here is the costs and merits of of the sbc vs the F6. I have provided data from an independent magazine test as well as price comparisons based on what is offered from established tuners. If you are able to build better sbc engines than Mr. Lingenfelter you must be very accomplished indeed and I welcome any press releases, magazine tests or brochures outlining what you or your chosen mechanic can/have accomplish for the vette motor. I think the comparisons I have made are valid as the LS1 in the Z06 and the LT5 in the ZR1 are the best engines offered by GM at the moment so are directly comparable to the turbo F6. As for comparing the 930 powerband toa tractor, THAT is just sniping. I do take your point about free revving pushrods - they must exist as the exception to every rule.

ks911, you do not have to boost a 930 to 1.5 bar to make 350bhp. Anyone who does it w/o the supporting mods is stupid and stupid sbc owners are easily as numerous as stupid Porsche owners so that should settle that. As for the vette winning at Daytona, well it is a DRY SUMPED race unit that won and has absolutely nothing in common or interchangeable with the engine in your Frankenstein machine. As for the GT3r engines, they share the same bore and stroke and numerous other parts with the 3.6 that has been in service since the 964. Indeed, GT3 pistons, cylinders and rods are now offered as upgrades to aircooled engines by several tuners. The 993 RSR engines are even closer in specification. The inadequacies of the sbc oiling system may not be obvious when attached to the laughable suspension designs in their original mounts but when attached to the rear of a 911, it will rear its ugly head but fortunately for your sake, it will be cheap to fix.

OK so a V8 is a really cool idea. Cheap, powerful, and long lasting. Great!
But that body, it's so small and impractical, and the panels are so expensive to replace. What say we take body, put it to one side (in case of subsequent restoration) and replace it with a cheap, easy to fix and readily available pickup truck body. You would then have a roomy, practical, cheap and easy to repair machine. Of course you'd probably have to change the wheels and tyres (fuchs would get lost under the huge arches) for some large chromy off roady style ones to balance up the 'look'. Top it off with a huge roll bar, some spotlights and some stickers that say 'thrust' or 'ram' or something and you've got the ultimate Porsche! Err… hang on

ks911 - back to your ORIGINAL POST - Is there one thing that stands out in your mind as being the most troublesome part of the conversion? I am seriously considering this upgrade of yours, and am curious if I should tackle it alone or not. Renegade gets way too much $$$ to perform the installation, so I either do it myself and soon, or wait until next year...

Also, do you know if the LS-1 motor mounts are the same as the LT-6?

I look forward to seeing more pictures of your conversion.

930fan,
Do you only read the words you want, damn son. I said boost between 1.2 and 1.5, and it most certainly does take that kind of boost without other mods to get 350+ Hp. So lets talk about the 930. I don't care how much money you spend on a 930 you will never fully tame the lag, and with all the autocrossing I do that would suck. Rememder the FYD I told you all about in an earlier post, that would never happen agian. I looked at buying a 930 because I wanted more than a normally aspirated F6 could provide. It would cost huge amounts of money just to get the lag under enough control to make it fast on a tight road course.
You think that you have some point that I have not thought of that will make me sit up and say, "holy @%#* what have I done". I spent almost two years trying to work out exactly what I wanted in a sports car, not just a PORSCHE. If you can sit there and say that there is nothing that you would have had Dr. Porsche change than you have little imagination.
The Porsche is a wonderful bred but the cars were not built for me specifically so I bought a car and built it to suit my needs and wants, if that offends you, sorry. What irritates you so much that you have to verbally bash other peoples ideas, I think you are narrow minded and without vision but I would not say that out loud, oops, I guess it just slipped.

As for you super short or super sport, whatever, you I see in much the same light, but you have imagination, wacked as it might be.

Due to the free country and right to speech thing, I will continue to post updates as long as someone out there is interested.

All this "fact" and "racing" gibberish is beside the point. The "fact" is that for ~$3500 you can purchase a ready to bolt in 300+HP Chevy crate motor to put in your toy. The conversion parts will run around another $3000 or so. Once the conversion is done you don't care how long the SBC lasts. They are cheap to rebiuld or replace. Everyone on this board knows what a Porsche engine of similar HP would cost to buy, fix, and maintain. These cars are toys, have some fun!
VIP - if you have the time you can do this yourself. I haven't seen anything to indicate that the swap is difficult. The biggest anoyance I have heard of is purging the cooling system. This has also been handled nicely by a few creative fellas.
My V8 S10 now has 240,000 miles on it, the engine 115,000. It doesn't leak, smoke (except the tires), or overheat. I don't have two grand in the motor and it runs 6,000 RPM whenever I'm in the mood. The joy is that it DOESN'T HAVE TO. I can simply goose the throttle and leave most traffic behind. And this is a heavy truck, not a lightweight 911.
I can see why a purist wouldn't like the idea of the swap, but from a performance per dollar standpoint you'll never be able to logically refute it. Find someone who has done the swap and ask them for a ride. If your nice to them you might experience the most fun possible for under $7000. Life is short, live it!

VW@ - I appologize if I am slamming you incorrectly for point #4. I am just trying to report the SOHC cam thing correctly.

Also when I mention the "serious money" for a high revving mouse it is given the assumption that there are no freebie parts. Like, I do not know anyone that has hotrod chevy stuff hanging around thier garages, or Porsche parts for that matter... I need new friends!

Have you ever done a type 4 conversion from a type 1? Just wondering. This is something I would like to do for my bus because the original idea of f-6 power is too expensive to justify. Which kind of goes full circle back the the V-8 swap, it is done primarily from a cost perspective most of the time.


List- 930fan has a valid point in the high rev area though. A SBC will need to convert to solid lifters and cam above roughly 6500RPM due to valve float. Then the maintenance becomes similar to the f-6 where valve adjustments are necessary. Also the dry sump is a wonderful thing to have for oil circulation.

Depending on how much juice you want out of your motor is directly proportional to how long it will live. Extra boost means less life in turbos. Extra high RPM blasts in SBC means less life due to weaker bottom end, especially if you do not have a 4 bolt main bearing cap.

Racers tear down the engines every year anyway to check that the high output goodies are still in spec. If you plan on having race car like output then expect this to be part of the opperating costs.

Also the only magazines to subscribe to are Car & Driver, Car Craft, and maybe Excellence. Excellence contains a lot of fluff that does not get read. Someone should start a thread on this.





------------------
Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

I have a request...

could someone post parts costs for rebuilding a 3.0 p-F6?(the one out of say an early-mid eighties SC) or would that go in a seperate thread?
and also maybe parts costs for rebuilding a higher performance engine? the only thing is that the parts (if ordered) should be able to show up at my doorstep within a week of ordering them. (like if i were to order a set of pistons for an SBC from summit or Jag's)

TFI you can go to the Motormiezer web site and they have a kit list that has everything that you will need. for a 3.0 rebuild.

Many suppliers offer kit prices that are cheaper, than purchasing seperately.

Hope this helps.

ks911,

It may be that you are selectively reading parts of my post. 350 is totally possible with headers and a boost controller without stupid boost levels. And let me make it clear that it is not my intention to make you sit up and say "holy &*%$, what have I done" as it is patently obvious that it is not going to happen in my lifetime. Rather, the aim is to point out that the swap is not roses all the way for the Porschev as some people may have implied in this thread. I definatly do not belong to the "Dr. Porsche is the almighty" school of thought as is evident in the mods already in my car though the line is very firmly drawn (for me) at engine swaps from any other manufacturer. A Land Rover Defender with a sbc would be different again though

Now for a question for the mouse, rat or rodent http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/tongue.gif aficionados on this thread, can somebody please give me a quick history and factual lesson on the various permutations of the Chevy small block from the cheapest and least potent and their normal mounts to the other extreme. This info is just for my personal education and will not be used against you and I will then go and never return to this thread so no need to snipe http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

The smallest displacement SBC was a 260ci unit from the early days (mid 50's). The least powerful was probably the 262ci made in 1975 for the 48 state Monza putting out ~115HP. Arguably the most powerful was the 350/350HP vette motor of the late 60's. All these figures are for the conventional 1953 to 199(2?) production small blocks. Significant changes occurred after that time. The current Z06 350ci has an output of 385HP. As a point of intrest, the most powerfull production big block was the LS7 built for the Chevelle in 1970. This motor was rated at 450HP at 3700RPM for insurance purposes. Actual output was 560HP @ 5500RPM!

And yes, my garage is full of tunnel rams, heads, headers, engines, carbs of all types, Porsche fuel injection units, mufflers, turbos, complete engines, exhausts. You name it and it's probably there.

[This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 03-01-2001).]

In reply to 930: Wow! You’re continuing to pick out one word and missing another. In my last post I compared the SBC to a tractor, not a 911 to a tractor. WhatWhereHow’d you get that?
The very simple point there is the smaller engine with the same hp has a very different power band than an engine twice the size and the very same hp. Its not a history lesson you are missing, it’s the prac app.

You seem to be hemmed to your reading, which can be a good thing but if you don’t pick up the shop rags you can get a scewed view from just a magazine.

I have several good recipes for HiPo SBC, much of the data is far from what Chevy creates. I will post one or two. There are numerous pubs available that will show you how to get it together. Don’t read a slickie and claim to know what Lingenfelter is planning when he engineer an SBC. He can take a fishing pole and turn it into a drive shaft. He is also an influencial business man. The more you type the more you move your arm chair into a corner.

I will type up a few recipes from obtainable pubs, most of it easily done by a mechanics with time on his hands.

In reply to Pillow: Point on point #4 that’s understandable.

Yes I have swapped Type 4 with Type1s, I put a VW wagon Type4 engine into an old VW bus at age 17. The bus ran great, it was a good daily driver that had more low end power and ran much better than the Type 1 with a stick (everything was stock). At age 18 I was working on a Type 4 into a Bug, it requires a bit of new sheet metal, and another project took its place before completion. The bus ran good until the trans gave out, a rebuilt one may have worked better, not sure.

Pillow reply cont.: Solid lifter V8s can run for much longer periods of time w/o valve adj than air-cooled alloy suitcase style engine. The higher temps and alloys expand and contract much more than the V8.

Your point on how long an engine will live in relation to its output is the beauty of the SBC, there is no need to buy a dozen high speed parts and wind the snot out of it to get the speed you want. It will do just fine putting out 350-450hp from 3,000-6,500rpms (for a street engine the torque will be as high the hp). Just eliminate about a half dozen of the weakest links, lighten up the bottom end and it will run run and run at its planned power band.

I cannot agree that racers (depends on what type of racing?) tear down their engines every year, someone is going to be as competitive with their engine as they can be given time, manpower, competition etc. Some have no intension of taking their motor apart for years to come. I have friends that are competitive weekend racers that take the bottom ends apart a couple times a year, and none the next. On the other hand some the big boys at NHRA may have their engines apart at every race. I don’t pay much attention to them, it’s not so interesting unless I’m there.

MOST IMPORTANT POINT HERE>> Since I’m NOT running anywhere near racecar output, the only relation any of that has to do with me is I use some high-speed parts to add RELIABILITY to my MIDRANGE motor. I do not have any plans on being competitive at any track.
Just occasionally on the street or maybe someday at the run what you brung events. Around one hp per cube, a 377 SBC with Trick Flow heads running 350-400 hp at 6,000 rpm will do just fine, and runnning and running like a Duracell.
I have some nice .pics of a 911 - 450 hp 377 SBC with a lot of run hard goodies on the engine. The guy is also fitting a turbo to it, can’t seem to go fast enough I guess.

I will get some RELIABLE HiPo and dyno’d recipes and their references posted. With 1990s aftermarket technology, informed planning, and accurate workmanship it’s a piece of cake.

How do we get the pic’s posted?


PS, As far as the unrelated stock rambling that the SBC crowd has to comment on, the LS1/LS6 are underated from the factory. As I posted earlier, some guys are dyno'n them at the tire and getting almost as much as Chevy says the engine is putting out.

PPS, And always remember, ther are wheel dynos and engine dynos don't mix up the results. There are also wide variations of standards set for the engine dynos, don't get too caught up reading one magazine test and comparing it another.

APPLES TO APPLES

Well - there is one way to stir this up a little more, and I'm surprized no one has mentioned it yet.

A triathalon. Drag race, Auto-X, and Road Course.

A stock early 3.3T Euro 930 puts out 300HP.
A stock late 993 puts out 282HP.
A stock late LT1 puts out 285-315HP.

Line up an LT1 powered Porschev against a 930 or 993 powered 911 and have at it! Run dynos and weigh in. Sounds like a blast!

Obviously the Porschev has nothing to lose, so it may be hard to get an opponent. Waddaya say!! Time to put up or shut up.

RARLYL8 - you pay for my conversion with a LS-1 and I AM IN!!!! http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

*Yawn*

I have a suggestion, just a suggestion now; How about everybody (like VW and Rarly) who wants to spout off about SBC, BBC, LT1s,2s, 3s, or whatever, and wants to discuss, or worse yet, post, big block small block receipes or formulas, GO TO ANOTHER WEB SITE! This is turning into an all out discussion of Chevy engine rebuilding, cubic inches (ouch!!) and drag racing! Who cares. I'm really hurt RARLY that you would make fun of my profession, I've never made any derougatory remarks about you being a "chemist". Which probably translates to a meth or crack cooker, right?? http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif Seriously though Rarly, should I stick with the 650 Holley or go to a 750? I'm ready for a carb rebuild and don't know if I should switch. And you know me, I don't want any aftermarket crap.

I too have a suggestion for you AIRHEAD, however decency prevents me from putting it in print.

If the Porsche engine was *all* that great, it would find a home in other areas. Its flat. That is just about the only good thing going for it. High tolerances are no good if you can’t count on them. (2.7L, 3.2 valves, etc.)

You hear of Chevy transplants because they are inexpensive, powerful, and very durable/dependable.

If you think you have to spend big dollars on something to get quality results, then PLEASE hire me to establish a customized, investment-free, qualified pension plan for you. Just please allow me the ridiculous pricing that you give PORSCHE. I do in fact need to weed out the riff-raft…

I bet these folks that say a SBC transplant is for the “commoners” are the same that ***** about the price of their kid’s shoes…

VIPLicker, I don't know what V.I.P. you've been licking, but I don't recall ever saying anything about cost, or cutting down anyone for wanting to save money, I've said this from the begining, its about heart and soul. Apparently all you see is cubic inches and who can go faster, hey even a V-8 rebuild isn't cheap in my opinion, so get off your high horse and READ the postings! I buy my kids shoes at SEARS too.

For the sake of this stalemate,......HA ha, SEARS! Lets change this to the "Where do you buy your shoes". I got my last pair of Nike's at Dillards. 40% off to boot. They have a flat sole as apposed to V-shaped. They help me when cornering and allow me to get more traction.

I just hate to see this topic slow down, so I'll weigh in. I know ks911 and his car. You all would like to ride in the car. Half of the topics on this site pertain to performance upgrades for our 911's. He has gone out and built a 350 plus hp 911 with low center of gravity, excellent handling, mind boggling power and airconditioning for the wife. For less money than I spent installing a upgraded 3.2l in my SC. He was kind enough to lend knowledge and some space in his garage ( the upgrades were done at the same time).
I used to loose in autoX anyway, now I loose to FTD. I used to be faster in drivers ed, now I'll wave when he passes.
You purist out there may have never hit track, but when you do and you see that your car is not the fastest thing around when your not on the street. You to will look for the most inexpensive way to get a faster better handling car for as much money as you've got to spend.

SR911, you and Rarly both need to put up or shut up. If the SBC is so great why don't you put it in your own 911s? Some of us, as I've said before, don't care about how fast we're going in a straight line, we're purists! Believe me, I wouldn't care if a Porchev blasted by me on the road. I'd probably pass him a few miles down anyway when he's sitting on the roadside all overheated. Oh, Hoff944, I agree let's get off the shoe topic, but those 40% Nikes from Dillard's, they're probably NOS from Sears. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif, (yea, I've been to that Dillard's in Murfeesboro) http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Why don't you sell me that Chevelle of yours. Obviously you don't know what to do with REAL power.

Sorry Aircool my car does not overheat because it is done well, not some stuff job. If you love the F6, GREAT, find a post were I have stated otherwise. I have owned three F6 Porsches and loved them because with those car I did not long for more HP. They were cars that I felt needed to remain Porsche powered because it would have taken away from there personality if I had removed them. But please, please get this through your head, my current car is not the same type of beast. I have owned very correct P- now I want something over the top in Hp, handling, brakes and looks. And I feel that the looks and mostly handling of the rear engined Porsche is what appeals to me and many others, not the expensive to built hp F6. When you learn to drive a 911 fast you have accomplished something and I like that challange, I don't feel that there is a better chassi for a transplant that will offer the combination of looks, handling and braking as the 911, period!!!!!!!!

And as for all this *$&# about getting off this site and going somewere else. Who ever is holding a gun to your head and making you enter this thread is at fault not us, so call the police, take a round in the head or keep out of this thread if you don't like the content.

Great Thread!

Engineers go through all this to develope new products and make the old ones better which is essentially what we like to do.

AC: XXX is a great business! Sure as hell a lot more fun than what I'm doing! But, I think I'd move to California for that.

I hear stories about sbc running 9,000 rpm for most of the race on circle tracks. Roller cams don't exactly break the bank compared to P stuff.

Dan

Helo myname is Billybob and I live in a trailer park

I dont sea whut all tha fuss iz about I just love my vee ate Porche

Even though I got no heater, i dont need one as it ghets real hot inside my car, let me say my Porche is far better

Rod simpson at Renegade Hybids is my hero he nos more about 911s than any of them fancy Germains

whith all my extry power i can carry all my cuzins and sisters in my car with eaze

Hey BillyBob wheres yalls from, I's sho woold like to gets togethr fors a pigs rost ands som of that homemad elixer of yours!!!!!!!!! HEHEHEH.

Gees KS911 no need to get nasty, after all you're the one getting the free publicity for your shop. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif I come to this site because I'm a Porschephile, I come to this thread because you've made it so amusing. No reason for you to take it to a new low telling guys to off themselves, chill out bro! And don't take offensive when I tell you there are other sites, man..., I'm just trying to decontaminate this one. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif Hey Rarly send me that 930 engine and I'll send you my newly rebuilt 396, deal??!!