Well, well Supersport aren't you a nasty little cus. You know, I have a friend who could sculpt you a life size statue of Dr. Porsche for your living room!!!! Please...............

And as you stated, this is a bullitin board, not a spelling bee, so piss off. I have a lazy eye too, maybe you could come up with a snide remark for that also.

It is nice to see that perhaps you are just being facetious (spelling?) about this whole V8 thing Rarlyl8. You still have enought senses about you to LOVE the Porsche sound in a Porsche car.

I do however agree with you on the vintage thing. Some car, its alright to chop it up (meant in the nicest way possible). Just not my car.

VROOOM VROOM

I'm out.

Adam Roseneck

------------------
1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

Are we still on this!! Come on! Give it up Neverlate, or either put up or shut up. Go build your own Porschev already and quit waffling between the sweet sound of a flat six and the blast of a Chev V8. If you love those Frankenstein cars so much go have KS911 build you one in his "Chop Shop". Oh by the way all you Chevy conversion lovers, there ARE other web sites for you, good ones too. No need to take this space too.

Aircool,
I like the Chop Shop, but I do build Porsches for other people. You will not find an unhappy customer of mine.
And I am a member of the PCA and servered as Regional Director for two consecutive years because know else would do it, so I have just as much right to be here as you do. Just because my little car beats to a different drum doesn't mean that it is not a Porsche. I have owned and completely restored two other Porsches, they just weren't quit as fast as this one....

Hey you guys have to of enjoyed this post, if not there would not be 163 posts at this time...

I heard that Renegade Hybrids (UK Ltd) have a backorder on their Bosch/Lucas 911 complete electrical conversion swaps. It's a keen piece of kit!:

1x Austin Allegro Lucas distributor to directly replace expensive Bosch/Marelli unit.
1x Hillman Avenger coil unit with cotton braided wire kit for full installation.
2x Sunbeam Alpine swapover headlight units with 200 spare bulbs and a torch.
1x Ford Escort cast iron starter motor with large flat bladed screwdriver for emergency disengaging.

It's cheaper if you buy it complete with the V8 package, but unfortunately all the pre '74 kits have sold out, such is their current popularity.


------------------
'72 911 TE

LOL ks911! Not that I'm one to hassle spelling mistakes, but you just shot yourself in the foot with 'servered'. Sure you didn't mean severed??

I like your conversion, to be truthful.

[This message has been edited by Matt Smith (edited 02-26-2001).]

Tuff crowd!!!!!I have never been a spelling B champion or a pro-typist. Somethings we do well, somethings we don't. Oh well!!!!!!!HA.

You bet we've enjoyed this KS911. Hey with all this free advertising for your shop you should be grateful to all us "purists". http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif Matt, where can I get that address for HYBRID? Maybe they have a kit to put a JAG V12 in my Chevelle. I want to make sure it comes with the Lucas electrical "upgrade" though, HA!. Hey, Neverlate you can help me with the conversion!! http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Now hold on a second..... Did someone imply that Chevy small block V-8s don't leak oil???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!.........(Ghasp!..need air...) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------
Tyson Schmidt
72 911 Cabriolet

hey, Chevy V-8's do NOT leak oil! sheesh.

they mark their territory.

wow. and as i'm posting this i just noticed this neat button that i'm surprised no one else has mentioned... it says "spell check" right on it.
hmmmm.....
and after running it, it tells me i spelled surprised without the first "r", didn't like the fact that i don't believe in capatalising the letter "i" and then (Wayne, this part is for you) when i clicked finish spell check it gave me an error. ugh. i copied it with ctrl-c, or so i thought. i guess i hit the wrong key.
-jim-

I rode a Norton powered Triumph with a Honda headlight, akront alloy rims, a squashed piece of pipe for a clutch lever and I painted it with some left over 2k aircraft paint! Cool thing was that other motorcyclists still waved at me......
Be good to each other and play nice!
:P

Generally speaking, ad hominem comments that target the verbal/written skills of participants are used by those without anything of value to say, and it devalues both the attacker and the thread.
If your best rebuttal is nitpicking your adversary's syntax, then go get a book and read up on the subject!
The real question is, why did I say this?
Because frankly, *I* need to go get a book and read up on the subject, and I don't really have anything to add.
But instead of starting trouble, I'm acting as the Pelican Jesus and sacrificing myself for all your sins.

SuperSporty (Speeling errors will occur in this post, as the spell checker explodes when i use it) here goes:
SS writes - "in some poorly thought out conversion"
I'm not sure if you are aware that home built Chevy to Porsche engine swaps have been winning races for about 30yrs. The history and research has been on going and I think it's rdy for prime time at my workshop. Also, I must be really inadiquate in my project management skills, ks911 looks to me to have a well thought out design, that seems to be doing everything he wants it to do and more (in his first post).

jryeson: While reading your posting I was laughing and saying "WHAT?" like that guy on American Pie after his buddy (@football practice?) was acting all soft towards the girl. "WHAT"... I was going to clip and paste your entire post into mine and add notes after each point of yours showing how dumb it looks in ks911's thread. Yea I think I will...

"1.Lets see, V-8 designed in the 20s by Ford
POrsche flat 6 in the early 60s designed from the flat 8 race engine in formula 1 cars- a race engine" First off, the comparison is a new custom made Chev with aftermarket heads, pistons, cam, intake, carb, etc etc. as compared to a 20 yo aircooled flat 6 or maybe even a 10 yo flat 6. If you remember ks91l never compared the technology, just the OVERALL performance and FUN factor of his well done conversion. 1920s FORD! what?

2.A flat 6 offers a low center of gravity and more freedom in body styling with added aerodynamic possibilities along with superior dynamic balance. I think you missed the first hand apples to apples OVERALL driving experience ks911 posted. Yes the wieght distibution is lower, the overall perf is....well should I say, the practical application or proof is in the pudding. Are we taking notes on ks911's Indy car project? Aerodynamics! what?

3.V-8 5 main bearings vs Porsche flat 6- 8
Yes, and most don't know it, the V-8 has alot vibrations from crank flex that effect its overall hp output. Yes the effect is more than a 911 engine, but please will someone tell me how this means anything in relation to a steet car or even a weekend warrior? 5 vs 8 bearings! what?

4.V-8 single overhead cam push rod engine vs double overhead cam for 911 F6. Yea and it sure does suck for those 100,000 cars when Chevy's TOTALLY redesigned 2001 LS6 single cammed engine kicks their as#....but I'm getting off track. Single vs two cams! what?

5.V-8 hard cornering oil starvation -solution deep oil pan, Porsche F6 dry sump enables lubrication at high G levels along with no oil pan needed provides lower center of gravity with less power loss due to crank shaft oil spashing. Chevy dry sumps have been around since before I wore diapers, but most stick with a -low dollar off-the garage floor-welded by Ed-wide on the side- shallow pan for clearance and stopped sucking oil 10 years ago. When your driving past your compitition at 4,500 rpm (knowing you have another 2,000 left) and thier oil free crank is almost at 7,000 (Chev, Porchse, Ford, Subaru makes no dif) it's dificult see the advantage of adding a chevy dry sump anyway. Power loss due to oil on the bottom end! what?

1-6 A post that does have good facts in it and great for a MotorTrend article, but its Techno babble. No relation to ks911's posting or most of the well planned engine swaps for that matter.

You guys seem to be giving this the O'le College Try!? How about helping me out, when you are posting tech stuff, post accurate information as it relates the start of this thread and the facts provided along the way. Everyone agrees a poor swap in any config or vehicle is gonna have serious problems, I missed what that has to do with this thread.

Brainiac: Come on Oil leak hahaha? If you stick a 5.00 gasket under a 2.00 piece of sheet metal in any engine it WILL (more-often-than-not) leak oil before a 40.00 gasket. Yep, same o'l same o'l point here, 10 y e a r s ago quality aftermarket gaskets and perf valve covers for chevys stopped the oil spots on most of the garage floors that cared about it enough to do it right. Let stick to Apples to Apples comparisons, not someone's pickup truck or over cammed 1968 camaro VS what ever they choose. As every other human, if available I use quality aftermarket parts to solve any inherent problems that NEED to be addressed in my engine builds or any project for that matter.

Geez lets get some solid points to ponder.

Just about every counterpoint after ks911's first or secound post had been retro babble, based mostly on old factory stock Chevys and word of mouth about poor quality engine swaps.

ks911 has put together a good engine swap using dozens of current tech parts. It's also interesting to note, he could be considered still in the R&D phase as this is a RELATIVELY new swap. I'm wondering how well tuned the car is going to be after he has a few more years into it.

From my first post - ks911 defeated 98% of the snipers from the start. Lets get some UP TO DATE FACTS posted (maybe mechanical?), I'm hoping to see a new issues with the swap.

Opinions are one thing, but lets stop the sniping and already covered babble. Let us PLEASE provide info for the grey matter; and on the other hand maybe, just maybe, if its a mechanical issue I can try to fix it during the build process.




[This message has been edited by VW@heart (edited 02-26-2001).]

It is very clear from the title of this post what the subject matter is. If you don't like it don't read it.

I find it rather disturbing that the V8 bashers don't have the capacity to appreciate more than one type of engine, no matter what it is in. Equally disturbing is the intolerance towards talented engineers who dare to be different. I can just see the modified 911 guy who gets his ass handed to him in a race with a Porschev "Well, that doesn't count, after all it's a Chevy, he didn't spend the money I did to have a true Porsche."

By the way, spell check doesn't work with the system I use to post and I've sure got better things to do with my time than worry about that.

[This message has been edited by RarlyL8 (edited 02-27-2001).]

"The men who designed and built it are universally acknowledged as masters of their craft. They stand alongside great musicians, artists as writers in my estimation"

Thanks for the laugh !! I was truly amused.

If you spend some time on this board, you will no doubt uncover the routine problems 911 owners encounter, and all these problems are accepted as character, or spirit of ownership, as if it has to be that way?

But it doesn't have to be that way. Lots of neat things have been invented to make our lives easier. Some Brits just have a hard time accepting them, (like when they forgot about indoor plumbing after the Romans left) http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

If the dear Dr Porsche was as brilliant as he is esteemed to be, then valve adjustment, oil leakage, tensioner problems, soft valve guides, fly wheel, etc, etc...wouldn't be so common as they are/were. But the are!

The facts so obviously present themselves here very frequently, it takes a deluded P-car owner not so see them. Those that aren't deluded will readily admit to spending lots of maintenance time and or money on their cars. KS has just extended the removal of those pesky nuances one step further than many of you. (as I'm sure many of you have taken steps to improve your car, as you weren't happy with the master's)

Having restored a car, I can take pleasure in working on a car, but having to continually dedicate myself to its preservation/adjustment is unattractive, I have a family and other priorities (as you can tell by the length of this post)

To me, it seems that KS911 has drastically improved his car for how he uses it. It requires less maintenance and it's faster. He has sacrificed the F6 sound, but that is really its only shortcoming , and quite worth the trade.

Regards

Russ

I've been observing the daily soap opera that has become "Glad to have a V8" and I've come to a conclusion. There is no way that I would put a V8 in a 911, but thats my opinion. I respect other people's opinion and if they want to put a V8 in their 911 that fine. I wouldn't have much interest in it but thats okay. Its the owner that would I guess.

My 2 cents.....I'd rather have the flat six for racing applications given the past track records.

Now if only we can put a 944 engine in a 911....... http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by hoff944 (edited 02-27-2001).]

I keep seeing this reference to the Porsche racing history. The most revered marque racing has ever known is Ferrari, and everyone knows what a true piece of crap those cars are to own. You rarely see one with more than a few thousand miles on it. The Porschev conversion is meant for personal pleasure, not racing.

I just KNOW we will get 200 posts before this is over!

RarlyL8 - I must agree with your assessment of the Ferrari, after owning a 328 for two years and nearly going bankrupt over its operational costs, I gave up.

HOWEVER: Porsche has more sanctioned wins than any other manufacture. I just looked this up. They have won Le Mans more than anyone else in every class they have ever entered and they have won the Manufactures Cup more than anyone else. I found this interesting as I too thought Ferrari was King of the Racing World. Also keep in mind that these are European venues. I guess we can be wrong ONCE, huh? http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

BTW: The Corvettes NEVER suffered from engine failure in any 24 hour event. While the rest of car tended to go away rapidly, the drive train has proven to be superior pick for endurance racing...

In '99 @ Sebring one of the vettes lost a gear box if I remember correctly.
They sure sounded cool as they went by.

No... this post will never be over. It might lie dormant for a few months, but it'll keep haunting us until Wayne kills it because it is bogging down the server. By then we'll be engrossed in another flame over who does or doesn't wave at us.

At least you have to say one thing about all of this... we sure are a passionate bunch. I've never seen so many people get so fired up over a car. Isn't it great? And my
wife thought I was weird for being so into my car. I guess I'm normal after all... well, here anyway.

Looks like th PP Porsche site has turned into the "I love my V-8"site , next will be the debate of which is better Ford, Mopar, or GM and then we can discuss which look better on a 911 Cragar 10x16 Chromies or Centerline Satins

VW I hope you don't really believe the crap you are saying, but you probably do since you love smoking your tires at will
with the big v8 in your squad car while wearing your mirrored sunglasses headingto thelocal donut shop to meet up with your pals and discuss how you pulled over some yuppie who was speeding in a Porch and
howhe needed a little tune up upside his head

Hey I like V-8s also after all I have a big 8.2L dertoit Diesel in my Athey street sweeper but I have also owned countless muscle cars and a Corvette with V8s and they
were no where near as relible as my 911 engine and they'd never make it to 250,000 miles without major work.

jryerson: those were pretty personal insults to VW - someone who never referred to you by name in a negative manner.

Perhaps your unsuccessful car ownership and obviously lacking car education (specifically related to cars in the real world - an no - saying you owned them doesn’t count) are related to your inability to properly care for a car unless someone does it for you. Or perhaps you’re just a bad driver. Maybe both.

If you don’t like what you read here about V8's in 911's, then turn your head and say nothing if not something nice. There are plenty here interested in the topic and you are not going to influence any opinions here. No one is interested in your insults. But insults should be dealt with in a manner consistent with their intended spirit. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif

That should get a few more posts... http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif
200 or BUST

Two hundred is a nice, round number so I better 'help out' again.

VW@heart: why get so heated up! The time for decent, factual/useful/technical information has long since passed. Around about post no. 1 actually.

What we need now is, well, a Pelican soap opera I guess! You know the gig:
A few strong characters with opposing views; a nosey neighbour who can't stop meddling; the new person on the block who stirs up old memories; the talented-but-troubled genius; a couple of peskey adolescents always getting themselves into trouble...
Every Soap has an ongoing, frustrating on again/off again love affair in it- we've all got one of those already!

How about this for a new plot line:

*Leading character (a surgeon) falls deeply in love with a timelesly elegant though still beautiful woman. Sadly the woman is of ailing health, and has recently fallen on hard times and cannot afford the medical bills neccessary for her complete recovery. In a fit of pitiful, charitable lust, the surgeon takes it upon himself to cure her of her ailments and make her better than before!
He begins the trecherous, uncharted medical misadventure one night in his darkened operating theatre soon after receiving the chilled baboon's heart from an unnamed (though supposedly reliable) source. Will it fit? Will it last? Will it permanently disfigure her???????

Hahahahahahahahahah!!


------------------
'72 911 TE

I want to be the "talented-but-troubled genius-adolescent"?

Adam Roseneck



------------------
1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

Can I be the horny next door neighbor that stands 6'2", blonde and blue, drives the gnarly 83 SC cabriolet and gets to screw every new nubile young actress that hits the set?

Hey...it could happen....8^)

Adam, you are.

Can some one please post a REALLY REALLY high resolution picture in this post so that it will take forever to download, and people will stop bickering over this mundane and utterly boring topic

Well, I guess I'll put my .02 in again. Lets compare the v8 to the v6 porsche engine.

As I have stated in the past, the porsche engine is a complicated machine. The tolerances are much closer than those of the v8 - that is unless you have the v8 blueprinted and balanced. The porsche engine is already balanced.

Operation- you can run the hell out of a porsche engine and it will keep on going. You can't run the hell out of a v8 for very long before it starts burning oil - again, I am comparing a stock v8 against a stock v6.

I have seen many a big block engines smoke - especially those that are considered muscle cars that are being run on a daily basis. I have yet to see a porsche smoke that has been run on a daily basis. Why, because of its design.

Carburators vs fuel injection- on the v8 there isn't much to deal with. quad carberators - float - needle valves, throttle plates - vacuume hoses - idle adjustment.

On the fuel injection engine - throttle housing - auxiliary air valve - auxiliary air regulator - thermo valve - control pressure regulator - diverter valve - deceleration valve

On the v8 all those components are associated with the carburator operating properly, on the v6 all those components listed are associated with the engine operating properly. Big difference.

More parts on the v6 result in more problems - but, if you know how to deal with them, than working on the v6 is no different than working on the v8.

Costs associated with the v8 are a lot different than those associated with the v6.
The v8 parts are mass produced and cost less - the v6 parts are not a because of this, costs more.

Sopisticated differences - the v8 is pretty much a common engine and if you worked on one, you can work on another, whereas the v6 is a lot more complicated and required more technical skills to get the engine running right.

Now, I did not make the above comment to get people pi**ed - it's just a fact. There are people who want the easy road, and there are people who want a challange.

I own a 78 911 SC Targa - Never got involved with a P-engine before this. Knew nothing about it. Worked on v8 and v6, flat heads, four cylinders, etc.

It takes a lot of courage to tackle tearing down a v6 P-engine. In addition you better pay attenention and know what you are doing. On the other hand, working on a v8 is pretty straight forward, again if you worked on one, you can work on others.

As you can see based upon what I have stated that not everyone could or would want to own a P-engine or want to work on one. It's just too involved and when it does have problems, solving it is not as easy as it seems, let alone the costs associated with it.

On the other hand, if the v6 is running right, and it is taken care of, it will provide many miles of happy motoring, just like the v8, and it is more forgiving in most instances.

v8's have there place, just as the v6's have their place. We can go on, and on, and on, and on about the comparison but the bottom line is what works for you may not work for someone else.

Steve

Poor Steve - how do expect us to respect your position when you are so WRONG!!!

You have confused the small block with smoking big blocks, and Porsche has NEVER built a V6 - EVER. Now if you knew what you talking about you would compare apples to apples - 3.6 is comparable to the Chevy LT-6.
The Chevys do not leak, have fewer parts and produce far more power. The flat 6 of Porsche (F6 for those of you from Palm Beach county, FL.)is very intricate, and does a GREAT job. It is just so well designed that there is no room for improvement without the aid of major $$$. Even if you have the $$$ to put in the F6, and you "keep score" by dollars, how much sense does that make when that same $12K+ could be invested elsewhere. I have always been told that a man is remembered for the money he saves, not the money he spends...

Please research information prior to posting as you have just made major points for those of us considering the wisdom of the V8 swap.

Muhahahahaha

Can we go back to Matt's Soap Opera idea? So bored with the techno jibberish ......

Can I be the nosy neighbour that has an invallid opinion on everything? Mrs Mangle rules! (Only Right Hand Drive owners will know what I'm on about hahaha....Every body need good neighbours!)

Can we go back to Matt's Soap Opera idea? So bored with the techno jibberish ......

Can I be the nosy neighbour that has an invallid opinion on everything? Mrs Mangle rules! (Only Right Hand Drive owners will know what I'm on about hahaha....Every body need good neighbours!)

Fishcop:

If you are trying to compare a mangle to a Porsche >F6< you are well off base.

The mangle was a turn of the century clothes drying device, simple in engineering terms, simple in manufacture and simple in use-
merely place the clothes in one end, twist the handle and out they come; all squeezed dry.

The >F6< is an engineering jewel. It is mastery of design, brilliance of execution and wonderous in operation. It can also be seemingly simple in use: merely place your body in the seat, twist the key and out you'll come- squeezed flat from G forces.

Mrs Mangle from Neighbours still works in this discussion though! Brits and Aussies/Kiwis will remember her as an annoyingly antiquated, stuck-in-her-ways frump, who was well past her sell by date. Kinda reminds me of the SB Chevvy??

------------------
'72 911 TE

Gees VIP get a grip! I think you've been sniffin' too much nitro.
The F6 is cool and strange little motor. What it lacks in displacement it makes up for by using "exotic" fuel delivery and oiling systems. Just think of how much power a small block would produce with 4 Webers and a dry sump system. Why - I bet they may have even use something like that for racing. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

neat! look at the number of posts go! woo hoo!!!

and maybe 2 out of the almost 200 are really informative on how that v-8 got stuffed in the car in the first place.
no links to a website with pictures of engine mounts, radiators, adaptor from transaxle to engine etc.
pictures of teh exhaust would be cool too.

more stuff for snipers to shoot at, more stuff for the curious to be informed on.

-just doing my part to contribute to viprkiller's ambition on getting to 200!

Hey, on this soap opera can I be the producer and director who gets to screen cast the actors/stars? I think you ChopShop guys are missing the point to all of this, especially you VWsansheart. This is not about horsepower or who goes faster or who is more reliable and inexpensive, if it were you are all barking up the wrong tree, or blowing through the wrong pipe. We purists really don't care if your car can go faster than a "real" Porsche, or how much you think you are saving with an inferior engine. Bottom line is when you take the soul out of the Porsche you disrupt the harmony of engineering that it was designed with. We purists love the sound of the flat six, its sweet tone, its design, and the way the engine combines with the body to create a picture of beauty and perfection. When I see a V-8 in the back of one of this pieces of art I have to gasp in horror. So cut all the technical gibberish and stick to the issue, DON'T BUTCHER A PIECE OF ART!! AND IF YOU DO, DON'T COME TO OUR BACKYARD BRAGGING ABOUT HOW YOUR DOG CRAPPED ON THE LAWN!!

BYTHEWAY my spellcheck doesn't work either.

Holy Cow! http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/eek.gif

This has got to set some kind of record for postings on the one topic!

Watching with anticipation....

AC



------------------
Adam Chaplin
adamchaplin@optushome.com.au
1976 911S Coupe

You're right viprklr, I did make a mistake when I called the P-engine the v6, but you knew what I was talking about anyway.

As for the big block or the small block v8's they're both the same - you can't compare them to the porsche engine - no way. But you are right when you say they are cheap - they are. Parts are real cheap.

So, with regard to the P-engine, it's all quality, no comparison to the small or large block v8's when you compare them.

What I am talking about if you didn't understand, is that a moron can work on a v8 small block or big block, but it takes a person with knowledge to work on a P-engine.

Steve

Last week a friend and myself saw a "Lamborghini" parked on this lot. We ran out to see this fine looking unit. When we investigated it up close ; it was Chevy auto-transmission and Chevy V-8. PATHETIC

We walked away....

man, this post sure is ferreting out the snobbery of some porsche owners.

Hey Aircool - you've got a big block Chevelle sitting right beside a 911. How can you own a muscle car and NOT be a hotrodder? Do you even work on your own cars? Driving a 911 after a few blasts in your big block has got to be like getting off a crotch rocket onto a moped.

Perspective is a funny thing. Purists think the 911 is a work of art, domestic hotrodders think a V8 in a 911 would class up the German junker a little. Ha!