Framing question for the experts

[cabmandone]

Looking at your picture I'm guessing you're 12 feet to the trusses. The horizontal boards on the walls are normally placed at 24" OC except for one closest to the floor. It looks like about 30" based on the pic.
I'd put the money you're putting into lowering the ceiling into insulation and keep the height. You'll thank yourself later if you ever want to add something like a two post lift. And insulated properly you won't notice a difference in the cost to heat.

[LWJ]

Clean room? Would tyvek or similar plastic barrier material make a better seal? Does this need to be so structural and permanent.

I am just thinking that drywall really doesn't lend itself to a cleanrooom situation. And, if you are not doing drywall, do you need the structure that it demands?

Sorry for the left turn. If you are making a paint room for example, there could be easier, cheaper means.

Good luck. Nice barn!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Looking at your picture I'm guessing you're 12 feet to the trusses. The horizontal boards on the walls are normally placed at 24" OC except for one closest to the floor. It looks like about 30" based on the pic.
I'd put the money you're putting into lowering the ceiling into insulation and keep the height. You'll thank yourself later if you ever want to add something like a two post lift. And insulated properly you won't notice a difference in the cost to heat.

If it's 12 feet then I'm good to go. I'll be out there Christmas day and I'll measure it.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by LWJ

Clean room? Would tyvek or similar plastic barrier material make a better seal? Does this need to be so structural and permanent.

I am just thinking that drywall really doesn't lend itself to a cleanrooom situation. And, if you are not doing drywall, do you need the structure that it demands?

I just want a clean, warm auto shop with walls I can hang things on. The other end of the barn is going to house farm equipment and livestock and I want a good barrier between the Porsche coupes and the chicken coup.

[john70t]

Drywall is great for warmth and sound deadening.

But installed in the damp outside air, 70deg against 10deg, without constant full envelope heating and dehumidifying?
I would give it about a year or two before it gets moldy swells and starts to fall off the screws.

What about concrete board or spray foamed metal sheets?

[rfuerst911sc]

I currently am elbows deep in a 24 x 28 pole barn . Here is what I am doing . Had the pole barn installed about 6 months ago . Had the concrete floor poured about 3 weeks ago . Have been studding up the walls with 2 x 6's that is now done . My roof trusses are about 5 ' spacing . I am going to staple reflective barrier under the roof trusses under the decking . I will install metal roof panels to the bottom of the trusses to make the finished ceiling . Will install kraft paper insulation on top of the ceiling panels as the vapor barrier , then will blow in an additional 6 - 8 inches of insulation .

My pole barn/garage will have a mini split AC/heat so walls will be insulated R19 and 1/2 " CDX installed inside and out . Have not decided on final exterior siding but leaning towards metal roof panels . The metal panels make a great ceiling , no taping no painting and is strong enough to bridge 5 ' to 8 ' truss spans . When using white panels they also reflect light very well . Hope some of this info helps good luck .

[wdfifteen]

I've been studying interior wall and ceiling treatments. My head hurts. Steel = noisy, worst condensation problems, not structural, pricey. Corrugated PVC = less noisy, less condensation, not structural, cheaper. OSB = cheap, structural, ugly, flammable. Drywall = quieter, easier to get someone to install, cheapest.
Anyway I do it I'm going to have to insulate it. That's another whole can of worms. Did I mention my head hurts?

[javadog]

Just use regular drywall and paint it. You won't have any problems.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I've been studying interior wall and ceiling treatments. My head hurts. Steel = noisy, worst condensation problems, not structural, pricey. Corrugated PVC = less noisy, less condensation, not structural, cheaper. OSB = cheap, structural, ugly, flammable. Drywall = quieter, easier to get someone to install, cheapest.
Anyway I do it I'm going to have to insulate it. That's another whole can of worms. Did I mention my head hurts?

I haven't experienced any condensation issues with my steel ceiling. In the side with no ceiling insulation it is noisy. In the insulated side it's not "as bad" but with your building having a metal roof, you're going to find it difficult to silence it when it rains. If you drywall the ceiling you're going to have to install 2x4's to span the 4' OC trusses and put them at 2' OC just like the roof is done and then use 5/8 drywall.

For insulation, R30 MINIMUM in the attic. I'd have blown fiberglass installed as it doesn't settle. The thickness it's installed at is the thickness it stays at. For exterior walls I'd have the walls sprayed with foam. You can go full thickness with foam but that gets a bit spendy. I'd probably have a foam sealing layer sprayed in and then a minimum of R14 batting insulation with a vapor barrier and then wall sheathing (drywall or whatever you choose.) There's also the blown in cellulose for sidewalls that is sprayed in and then the wall board installed, it seals well but I'm just not a fan of spraying stuff in that has water. Get it sealed up and your heating cost will be minimal. If you really want a headache, start thinking about heating/cooling.

[cabmandone]

4 whole days and no updates

Curious what you found on the ceiling height?
Also wanted to post a thought on metal vs other materials for walls/ceiling. Metal is nice if you would have a floor drain and want to wash a car in that nice heated space. You don't have to worry about getting walls wet.

[wdfifteen]

Just got back from doing some measuring last night. I have to leave to go back out there, so this will be short. Trusses are 14 feet to the bottom chord, set 3 foot OC. Doors are 13 feet. The supporting posts and beams parallel to the side walls are 8 feet from the walls.

[cabmandone]

At 14 feet to the rafters, I'd just go full height and insulate the room well. I have a 24x40 entertainment room with a 15 foot ceiling in my barn. When I added the room I didn't notice much of an increase in propane use versus what I had been using. My ceiling is has fiberglass blown insulation at R40. I installed a vapor barrier and installed blown in fiberglass insulation in the side walls after my wall board was on. It was a little more work that way but I have about 8 inches of insulation in my sidewalls. My room has only two windows and no doors to the outside except for a walk in door going into the unheated part of the barn.
I'm assuming you're planning an overhead door from the unheated space going into your shop space. I'd go with an insulated door, insulate your ceiling and walls well and call it a day. I use a residential 92% efficient gas furnace in the entertainment room as well as in my 30x50 shop. I'd set the room up with one or two ceiling fans to move warm air down off the ceiling and install the heating system with the return down low by the floor and the heat coming out up high. Some might go with a 30% high/70% low return setup but I figure why add the cost for the small benefit you'd see.
If you'd like to bounce some ideas around, shoot me a PM and I'll send you my phone number... as long as you promise not to use it against me in the PARF
I have a background in residential building and HVAC. I might be able to give you a few pointers if you'd like.

[Steve W]

Use the following schedule below to determine ceiling joist sizing and spacing for hanging a drywall ceiling. This is from the plans of a custom home I'm currently in the process of building. If you tie your ceiling joist midway with a support to the roof joists, you reduce the effective span and can reduce your ceiling joist sizing.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Steve W

Use the following schedule below to determine ceiling joist sizing and spacing for hanging a drywall ceiling. This is from the plans of a custom home I'm currently in the process of building. If you tie your ceiling joist midway with a support to the roof joists, you reduce the effective span and can reduce your ceiling joist sizing.

This is very helpful. Thanks!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cabmando

I'm assuming you're planning an overhead door from the unheated space going into your shop space. I'd go with an insulated door, insulate your ceiling and walls well and call it a day.

Thank you for the help. I am going to need a garage door. With 15' ceilings, how did you mount the door? Did you just drop some framing down to hang the horizontal track on or what?

I'm considering just screwing some of this stuff to the ceiling, drywall the walls, insulating the hell out of all of it, and calling it a day.
https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/pole-barn-post-frame-materials/steel-panels/8-2-pro-tuf-interior-pvc-liner-panel/p-1444448489029.htm

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Thank you for the help. I am going to need a garage door. With 15' ceilings, how did you mount the door? Did you just drop some framing down to hang the horizontal track on or what?

I'm considering just screwing some of this stuff to the ceiling, drywall the walls, insulating the hell out of all of it, and calling it a day.
https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/pole-barn-post-frame-materials/steel-panels/8-2-pro-tuf-interior-pvc-liner-panel/p-1444448489029.htm

Putting a door in with high ceilings is really no different than putting one in with standard ceilings. I used perforated angle that drops down to the track from the ceiling. You might require a little more bracing due to the drop length but still not a difficult task. My door is 12' tall in my barn but in my dad's building his is 8' tall with ceilings about as tall as yours and the installers used perforated angle. With your ceiling height I'd recommend a jackshaft opener so you maintain open full height to the ceiling between the two door tracks.

I'd want to make sure the pvc wouldn't sag as a result of the insulation you'll have on top of it. I have never used the PVC panels so I don't know what they can withstand with your trusses at 3 feet on center.

Insulating the space if done properly will probably be your highest cost in finishing the room but its well worth it.

[rfuerst911sc]

I don't think the PVC panels would be rigid enough to span your truss spacing and support insulation weight . Also I agree on the jack shaft style of openers . They do not intrude into the space and are very quiet in operation . Here is what I am ordering for my pole barn/man cave .


https://direct2ugaragedoors.com/liftmaster-8500-jackshaft-2pack.php

[bkreigsr]

....cheese - I love this board...
....ask, and it shall be answered....
....so many on board with such diverse areas of expertise...

.....try matching that on Rennlist or Vortex.

Bill K

[MBAtarga]

Originally Posted by peteremsley

A simply supported 19'6 span 2x6? No thanks.

Peter - that is with the joists on 12" centers. Not likely an economical choice (material and labor) when compared to using 2 x 8's on 24" centers as an option.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by peteremsley

A simply supported 19'6 span 2x6? No thanks.

Done all the time. Look in the ceiling of a typical 2 car garage ranch. See 2009 national code below ( I don't have more recent version handy) I believe spans were even longer in the prior codes, they are typically downgraded in every revision.



In OP's case, I would not assume roof trusts can be tied to used to support additional weight of ceiling or sheetrock.