Electrical question for the brain trust

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by bickyd

It is in reference to "I don't care about code" which implies you may not follow code.

If this statement from Mr. dyount is correct, dependent on interpretation I may be inadvertently in compliance.

"If it's in the kitchen it's required to be 20A circuit GFCI protected. If the work is being inspected the receptacles would be required to be tamperproof unless they are 5'6" above the floor."

It is almost exactly 5'6" from the floor to the edge of the counter, and then diagonally up to the center of the receptacle.

At the end of day 2 I have made some progress. The nexus of this project is Mrs WD's desire to move the garbage disposal switch from the right side of the sink to the left side. as well as replace all the ivory colored devices with black colored devices to go with her tile scheme.






I took out the disposal switch and pulled the wire into the basement and replaced the small steel old work boxes from the last remodel (in 2001) with deeper plastic boxes. I still have to fill the hole next to the box.



There was one receptacle to the left of the sink. Again, I yanked out the small steel old work box and replaced it with a deep 3-gang box. I replaced the outlet with a black one and added the switchs for the disposal and the under counter lights.

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Well, for starters, every receptacle in the kitchen must be protected by a GFCI as well as the laundry. A recep is required over any counter with a wall behind 2 feet or longer and must not be more than 4' apart. Recep's on each side of the sink must not be more than 2' from edge of said sink. Islands and peninsulas require at least one recep but could be more depending on dimensions.

Individual circuits required for DW, GD, Micro, hood, fridge, trash compactor and could be more depending on any one item's electrical draw. Not less than 2 convenience circuits but they are not limited to 1 recep per circuit. Lighting is separate.

This is all ad lib from memory, not the way to approach electrical work. So any corrections are welcome. And I didn't even touch on AFCI's which are now required in all areas of the home living space except the baths. The garage, crawl space, attic, and outdoors are not considered living spaces but sunrooms are.

Dedicated circuits are pretty much the same here and are limited to that specific appliance. Refrig can have a clock receptacle. Arc fault is for all receptacles here except sump pump if labelled, kitchen counters, fridge , lighting , central vacuum , C/M and Smoke detectors, and bathroom. If the garage is attached to the home it is included in the definition of "dwelling unit" and requires Arc fault. GFCI here is for locations near water sources and outside under 8 feet high. I am told the 2018 rules for Arc fault will include lighting but cannot verify. I hope it doesn.t because my cost for one combination Arc fault is 75 dollars. Thank you very much for the comparison. I should have stated I was quoting from the CEC, my apologies to all for the confusion.

[fintstone]

I don't see a GFCI outlet in the photos...

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Sounds interesting, but this is a remodel and there are already several switch, outlet, and combo boxes in the walls. I do NOT want to rewire the whole kitchen, just move a couple of switches and turn everything black to match the new tile.
(

Tell me about it, my wife is always "can you move that light fixture? Can you move that switch box?"

And I'm like.... sure, but I will have to rip open the wall, run new conduit, and then patch up the drywall.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by bickyd

It is in reference to "I don't care about code" which implies you may not follow code. Primarily, your safety is my concern but resale of your home will be affected when an inspector finds discrepancies in your electrical.

I totally agree with the safety issue. A friend of mine converted a garage to a recording studio and roped me into doing the electrical (in exchange for studio time). He had an electrician friend inspect my work, his friend said "well, it will work but it is way overbuilt".

I would be a little concerned about not using a GFI near water. Personalty any bathroom/kitchen on my property have nothing but GFI's in every outlet.

On the other hand when you want to sell later it is easy to install GFI outlets.

[dad911]

Per 2011 NEC (newest I have handy) exemption is 5-1/2' above the floor. Not diagonal across the counter. I believe the tamper-proofs started with 2008 code. If you are swapping receptacles I'm not sure that would trigger a necessary upgrade. However GFI is a good idea and has been required for 30+ years. It' not like a kidd is going to climb on the counter and insert paper clips.

If you had kids or grand-kids, changing the low ones might be worthwhile.

I see grounds twisted together.... you do have a wirenut or crimp on that?

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I totally agree with the safety issue. A friend of mine converted a garage to a recording studio and roped me into doing the electrical (in exchange for studio time). He had an electrician friend inspect my work, his friend said "well, it will work but it is way overbuilt".

I would be a little concerned about not using a GFI near water. Personalty any bathroom/kitchen on my property have nothing but GFI's in every outlet.

On the other hand when you want to sell later it is easy to install GFI outlets.

I think about those hand held blenders always used near the sink. A GFCI is basically a window transformer that encircles the hot and the common. If no leakage then the flux cancells each other out and no magnetic field is generated in the transformer. If there is leakage to ground, then there will be residual flux in the transformer thus setting up a magnetic field which pulls the metal solenoid and breaks the circuit. This happens almost instantly and has saved innumerable lives. I love guitars.

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[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

I would be a little concerned about not using a GFI near water. Personalty any bathroom/kitchen on my property have nothing but GFI's in every outlet.

Tough crowd.
You don't need one in every outlet, just one for every circuit.



Look way over on the right.



See it? It's the 1st outlet in kitchen circuit #1 - the one I'm currently working on.



Here is the first outlet on kitchen circuit #2. This was all in place before I started. The room was remodeled in 2001 and was in compliance then. All kitchen outlets are GFCI protected.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Tough crowd.
You don't need one in every outlet, just one for every circuit.

You are correct, sorry I misunderstood. Thought you were removing all GFI's, didn't know you were daisy chaining off the main GFI.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Tough crowd.
You don't need one in every outlet, just one for every circuit.

Yep! One GFCI protecting the circuit. Just hit the test button to make sure it takes out all the outlets near the sink.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by dad911

I see grounds twisted together.... you do have a wirenut or crimp on that?

Yes, crimp collars. They were big and wouldn't work without a fat wire bundle to go around. Its all i had.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by dad911

for tile? we use these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Electrical-Box-Extender-BE1-2/202708650

Update for anyone who cares.
When they remodeled in 2001 they used small steel old work boxes, the kind with the steel straps that you bend over. All of the box extenders I've been able to locate are for boxes that are 1/4 inch taller than these. I can modify them I guess, but the extenders are $1.44 each and new deep plastic boxes are $1.89. Guess I'm going to replace all the boxes. The new boxes have screws long enough for 1/2" drywall and I'll have drywall plus the thickness of the tile, so new, longer screws will be needed. Amazing how a seemingly simple job can cascade into such a time and money suck.