Two classy dudes

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

...
The police were called because these men hadn’t ordered anything. They were waiting for a friend to show up, who did as they were taken out in handcuffs for doing nothing. All the other white ppl are wondering why it’s never happened to us WHEN WE DO THE SAME THING.

...

It happens all the time to white folks...except they typically leave when asked to (because they see no payoff in getting arrested).

[cairns]

I'll just leave this here so everyone can see what a classy dude is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1BB0rhuLEo

[stomachmonkey]

No, I keep asking do we know it’s NOT a racist incident as you and others with the same anecdotal information keep insisting.

[island911]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

No, I keep asking do we know it’s NOT a racist incident as you and others with the same anecdotal information keep insisting.

What we do know is that Lib-coffee-bux does not have some epidemic of hiring racist employees.

We also see an over reaction to ONE incident. -- People tripping over each other with their concern that this could have been partly motivated by the loiterer's Black Maleness. And then we are all supposed to pretend that some potentially racist bux employee wouldn't be fired without massive public outcry. It's ridiculous.

The 'reparations coffee guy' (vid above) underscores the absurdity of it all.

[mreid]

Originally Posted by island911

exactly.

Island, you do realize this cuts both ways...right?

[island911]

Originally Posted by mreid

Island, you do realize this cuts both ways...right?

Of course.

Are you here to tell me of my White Privilege?

How about my tall privilege?

And what about my IQ privilege?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

No, I keep asking do we know it’s NOT a racist incident as you and others with the same anecdotal information keep insisting.

I am an old man...and have never seen a person kicked out of an establishment for their race (as best I can ascertain). There is nothing that would make me think that was the case here. As far as I know, race was never mentioned, the manager has not been outed as a KKK member, etc.. Bad things happen to folks of all race all the time when they misbehave. If you break the law, you should not expect an exception due to race. If you break the rules (this Strabuck reportedly had a rule that they would make people leave if they were loitering without buying anything)...it seems that you have no excuse/recourse unless you play the race card. They you are enriched. Not exactly a way to encourage appropriate behavior...or promote racial harmony. If the manager was not a racist before (unlikely she was)...she probably is now (and unemployed/unemployable).

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by mreid

Island, you do realize this cuts both ways...right?

Not really. If you are a member of a gross majority, there are just not enough of other races to realize "privilege". It would be great to play me some pro basketball though.

[cairns]

No, I keep asking do we know it’s NOT a racist incident as you and others with the same anecdotal information keep insisting.

Now you're just showing your ignorance. You have anecdotal information and we're presenting you with facts:

They did not buy anything and were not customers.

They were asked to leave and refused.

They were warned that if they didn't leave the police would be called.

The police were called.

They still refused to leave.

They were handcuffed and taken into custody.

They said they were victims of racism and sued.

You have any FACTS that show this is racism? If not maybe you should give it up. You're losing.

[island911]

For the slower one, I'm saying that skin tone is way down there when it comes to my "privilege."

And, if anything, currently, darker than White skin in America is a net positive.
We had 8 years of Obama in large part because of his skin pigment. --this is a comment to current cultural psyche, not politics. The overwhelming cultural thinking is that being darker skinned is better, as it represents a person who has experienced a more interesting life struggle.

Look at college admissions. Smart and Hard working Asians and Whites are pushed aside to make room for 'diversity' --which is not diversity of thought or experience, but rather a visual diversity for PC appearances.

[island911]

Originally Posted by cairns

Now you're just showing your ignorance. You have anecdotal information and we're presenting you with facts:

They did not buy anything and were not customers.

They were asked to leave and refused.

They were warned that if they didn't leave the police would be called.

The police were called.

They still refused to leave.

They were handcuffed and taken into custody.

They said they were victims of racism and sued.

You have any FACTS that show this is racism? If not maybe you should give it up. You're losing.

Exactly!

How can MLK Jr's dream be realized when people can, and DO, game White guilt like that?

Blacks would be smart to police their own who pull crap like that -- playing the race card to cover petty behavior.

And Whites need to quit encouraging. It's pathetic and feeds the divisiveness. --again, see the reparations coffee vid.

[fintstone]

As long as skin color is considered an excuse for any behavior, folks with exploitable skin colors will not behave. As far as i am concerned, not holding races to the same standards as everyone else is racism (low expectations)...the worst kind.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by cairns

Now you're just showing your ignorance. You have anecdotal information and we're presenting you with facts:

They did not buy anything and were not customers.

Yes, no disagreement. Same as a lot of Starbucks "customers", most who are not asked to leave.

They were asked to leave and refused.

Yes, no disagreement, again, why them and not others. This is where it comes down to their feeling they were being treated unfairly. Maybe you guys tuck your balls between your legs when you think you are being **** on but not all of us do.

They were warned that if they didn't leave the police would be called.

Yup, and they doubled down. Obviously they felt strongly enough about their treatment they were willing to see it through.

The police were called.

Yup

They still refused to leave.

Yup

They were handcuffed and taken into custody.

Yup

They said they were victims of racism and sued.

Well, they went through all that because obviously they felt that's what it was from the start so what's your point.

You have any FACTS that show this is racism? If not maybe you should give it up. You're losing.

Do you have any FACTS that show it was not racism?

We have witness statements they were sitting quietly and did nothing to attract attention other than ask to use the bathroom.

Statements that include wondering why they were asked to leave when others doing the same were not the only difference being, well we know that already.

Based on that you have no option but to lean more to asking the question, was this racism, than concluding, as you have done with the same facts, that it was not.

[cairns]

You keep losing and come back for more?? The facts prove that they were trespassing. It doesn't matter if it was racism or not. You can't prove it is and I can't prove it wasn't. So what? They were wrong. The proprietor had every right to ask them to leave and they had no right to stay. If you're trespassing on my property I get to tell you to leave or have you arrested. I can do that and be the biggest racist in the world. Or not.

[island911]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

sigh...

Here's the thing... Most Black Starbucks "customers" (loitering to meet a Craigslist buy or whatever) are not asked to leave.

So stop pretending that those two in Philly were the first Blacks to loiter in a Starbucks. It strains all credibility. It's just ridiculous.

[island911]

Tummymonk, have you ever loitered in a Starbucks or other coffee shop?

While I usually buy something right away, sometimes I'll wait for my friend(s) to arrive. And in those moments I can feel the employees look at me with WTF are you doing eyes. -employees like/expect a rhythm . Hell, they get weirded out if you pause to look at the menu.

Coffee shop employees often don't get a lot of control. For the most part they jump to orders. But, their workspace... that is one thing that they are supposed to be able to control. And now that's gone.

[island911]

How about loitering at the best table, at the best Starbucks in the world? (beach-front west Maui)

This dude cracked me up.

He was sitting there with his wife and a long lens, casually taking snaps of beach hotties.

He was camped out there for hours.



but at least he packed his own drink...

[mreid]

Originally Posted by island911

Of course.

Are you here to tell me of my White Privilege?

How about my tall privilege?

And what about my IQ privilege?

I actually hate that term “white privilege”. This is a made up bs term that liberals use in an attempt to explain away their own white guilt. There is a ridiculous video on YouTube of a white college professor trying to demonstrate the concept by setting up a race and then telling everyone who had both parents living at home to take a step forward, had their college paid for to take another step, etc. Now, start the race and those who took all the extra steps would win. I would have been in the back row, yet I’m white. What happened?

[mreid]

I’m in NYC today for my oldest daughters 30th birthday. My wife and I walked into the Starbucks on Union Square this morning and sat down. Didn’t order anything. After sitting for about 15 minutes, I noticed a woman of meager means hovering around the bathroom (it had a keypad that required a code from the barista). A paying customer entered the code and went in the bathroom. The woman then moved closer as if she was next in line. As soon as the paying customer exited, the woman caught the door and went into the bathroom. It was a single unisex toilet. No one asked us to leave, but I then noticed this sign posted next to the toilet door.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by cairns

You keep losing and come back for more?? The facts prove that they were trespassing. It doesn't matter if it was racism or not. You can't prove it is and I can't prove it wasn't. So what? They were wrong. The proprietor had every right to ask them to leave and they had no right to stay. If you're trespassing on my property I get to tell you to leave or have you arrested. I can do that and be the biggest racist in the world. Or not.

When they first entered they were NOT trespassing. It only became trespassing AFTER they were asked to leave and refused. No one is disputing that and I'm not sure why you keep trying to debate it.

The question is WHY were they trespassed?

It very well could have been that managers own policy re paying and non paying customers or it could have been something else.

Yes, Starbucks will trespass people, but it is far from the expected norm.

The widely accepted perception of Starbucks is a place that you can go, sit, use the WIFI, without having to purchase.

Are you familiar with the term "loss leader", it's a strategy whereby a business sells or gives away something for a loss because doing so will generate other sales of products or services with high profit margins.

That's what Starbucks does, they invite people in because most of them will ultimately buy something.

Their business model is providing a place to sit while offering the opportunity to buy something.

When things go down against the expected norm then every normal person is going to ask why, including you. If you just stand up and comply then I'm sorry for you and understand why you don't get this.

And you are so wrong.

It does matter if it was racially based, that's all that matters.

No business owner can trespass you for being a minority.

They can make up anything else they want (lie) as a reason but the reason can't be race based.

Which is why the question needs to be asked.