Knee repair/replace?

[scottmandue]

I'm 61 and no surprise my knee started to hurt so I went into my MD, he had it Xray-ed.
He shows me the Xray (of both knees side by side.)
Right knee nice cushy stuff between the bones... left knee, not so much
So I have a referral to a Orthopedic Dr but my MD says "you will probably eventually need a replacement but they have this stuff they can inject into your knee to simulate cartilage."

I won't know exactly what I will do until I consult with the Ortho.

Couple questions,
Anyone know about the stuff they inject to simulate cartilage?

We have a stem cell clinic here, I need to schedule a consult but they claim they can inject stem cells into my knee and regrow the cartilage (not covered by insurance so big $$$)

RE: Knee replacement,
I hear stories of people walking the next day and stories of it taking months to heal? I know everybody heals different and I presume they are different artificial knees and procedures.

I know the Ortho Dr can answer these questions but I'm in medical instance limbo waiting for approvals and referrals (no way of knowing how long that will take). I am trying to remain calm but the whole thing is freaking me out a little.

I'm not afraid of doctors...but not a big fan of surgery...

So, anyone have experience with knee repairs?

TIA

[GH85Carrera]

Your knee sounds like my hip was. Bone on bone flat hurts with every step. My orthopedic surgeon told me, he would not say when it was needed, that I would tell him. He was right. He said he would fix me. He was right again.

I have done no research on stem cells. I will be money it is total complete scam at this point. Once stem cell injections really work, all the doctors will use it and it will be the standard process.

Talk to a trusted doctor, like your GP and ask him.

I know several people that all had the same comment after they had their knee replaced, "Why in the heck did I wait so long!" I said the same thing about my hip.

Good luck.

[vash]

S..

did you lead a certain lifestyle that you think damaged your knee? football, heavy weighlifting..river dancing. (i dont know)

just trying to determine my own trajectory pertaining to knee health. thanks.

hope you get it resolved bud.

my mom had both knees replaced..1st time sucked since she didnt follow PT instructions. 2nd knee, she learned her lesson and followed instructions to a T. zero issues. i dont even recall her being down that long. she said V2.0 was cheeseball easy.

[Tobra]

You are a bit on the young side for a total knee. Synvisc is very interesting stuff, that is what they are probably talking about.

PRP is probably what you are thinking of when you talk about stem cell treatment

[gatotom]

Ok, first my background were I am coming from. I was a pro ski racer in the early 70's and after over 5000 days hard skiing, well, you guessed it, worn out knees. 8 yrs ago my ortho md told me I was ready for knee replacement. I told him no way because stem cells in my opinion was the way to go, he agreed.

In the timeframe since then, I have taken synvisc injections to both knees with great results. Synvisc is pure hyaluoric acid which is kinda like thick motor oil between the cartilage. It was covered by insurance and the effectiveness lasted about 8 months. I have since taken hyaluronic acid capsules from pure encapsulations with decent results so I can function and a almost normal level, ex. no running but can bike ride fine.

Stem cells have been injected into people in the Seattle area for about 6 yrs now.

Not only are my knees trash but my shoulders are probably worse mostly the right shoulder. I ripped it out of the socket about 40 yrs ago in a mountain climbing slip. In the last 2-3 yrs the shoulder has been a level 7 pain 24/7. Time to do something, stem cells were injected into right shoulder 3 months ago. The shoulder should have been replaced with a titanium joint but no way. Now I am 80-90% pain free movement is slowly coming back. I had the classic bone marrow stem cells and adipose stem cells with blood platelets, 30 days later blood platelets again, cost 6500.00. Best money I have ever spent.

In july I will get my knees stem celled, 2 knees cost 11000.00

No insurance will at this time pay for stem cells. When it comes to insurance, show me the money.

I justify this expense, I have been on Medicare for 5 yrs and only have medicare, no supplement. The cost that I have saved in 5 yrs has paid for my stem cell injections. I got the kind of care I was willing to pay for and was not told by a for profit insurance what I can have or can't have. To say the least, I do not like insurance co in any fashion yet for the last 36 yrs I have jumped thru the hoops in my practice.

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask. Unless you are bone on bone, stem cells is the way to go unless you think cowboy carpentry to remove that joint and replace it with titanium sounds better.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by vash

S..

did you lead a certain lifestyle that you think damaged your knee? football, heavy weighlifting..river dancing. (i dont know)

Not a super athlete, Did some dirt biking, broke my leg pretty bad (Tib-Fib) they did a great job putting back together but maybe not perfect.

And genetics, my family has bad knees, I'm one of three brothers and we have all dislocated our knees multiple time.

I'm no Dr but I believe bike riding is good for your knees so you should be cool.

[vash]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Not a super athlete, Did some dirt biking, broke my leg pretty bad (Tib-Fib) they did a great job putting back together but maybe not perfect.

And genetics, my family has bad knees, I'm one of three brothers and we have all dislocated our knees multiple time.

I'm no Dr but I believe bike riding is good for your knees so you should be cool.

oh-o. same tib-fib break here..and we all know my mom has janky knees.

mine have been sore for week..both of them. i thought from my mtn biking. i am gonna lighten up the climb this evening.

i hope you feel better bud.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Tobra

You are a bit on the young side for a total knee. Synvisc is very interesting stuff, that is what they are probably talking about.

PRP is probably what you are thinking of when you talk about stem cell treatment

Likely Synvisc or Supartz. I'm not familiar with Supartz, but I recall Synvisc is a series of 3 injections. I think it's about $600 or $700 for the 3-pack of medications. Your insurance may cover that cost. It's reasonable to try that before surgery.

PRP (Platelet Rich Plasma) is similar to, but different than Stem Cells. In both cases, they take some of your tissue (either blood, or fat/bone marrow), process it in a centrifuge, and then inject back onto you the vital stuff that's been separated. PRP tries to get your body to heal itself, whereas stem cells try to regrow new tissue. PRP may (or may not) be covered by your insurance. Typically, it may cost $1000-$2000 for a PRP treatment (if not covered). Stem cells are not likely to be covered by insurance, as it is considered experimental by FDA. So technically, for stem cells, you'll be enrolled in some sort of medical study. It is the wild wild west when it comes to stem cell pricing, but it can cost several thousand dollars (5-10) for a treatment.

[URY914]

Don't they inject rooster crowns material in your knees?

[sammyg2]

Stem cell stuff? sounds like they've come a long way since i had my ka-nee scoped nearly 20 years ago.
Back then they cut and scraped, and when they ran out of stuff to cut and scrape, then installed a metal knee.

before



after

[Tobra]

That is the Synvisc.

I am hip to the PRP Noah. You guys harvest it below the knee, we get it out of the calcaneus, the platelet derived stuff is a different flavor soup, but as you say, similar to stem cells.

We have been using grafts derived from placenta for a bit now, can get insurance to spring for it if the right ICD 10 boxes are checked. I seem to recall reading a paper on this sort of product being used in arthritic joints.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by vash

oh-o. same tib-fib break here..and we all know my mom has janky knees.

mine have been sore for week..both of them. i thought from my mtn biking. i am gonna lighten up the climb this evening.

i hope you feel better bud.

May want to have your friendly MD take some Xrays on your next visit.

Thanks for the tips on Synvisc, Supartz, and PRP!

[JeremyD]

at 54 I had a Total Knee Replacement (TKR) last year. about a year and 2 months into it. I had an ACL blow out playing basketball in college. At that time they just removed it and gave me a brace. 34 years of wear and moving around and I was bone on bone. And Arthritis-

I was walking around within a week - followed PT to a T - Better off now although it still gets a little stiff and achy after sitting for hours or driving for long periods of time.

(BTW - my insurance required me to try a cortisone shots first - then the Synvisc - usually only with a couple of days of relief at time)

Everything works as normal - just weird kneeling on it

[Tobra]

I don't think you are supposed to kneel on it.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

RE: Knee replacement,
I hear stories of people walking the next day and stories of it taking months to heal? I know everybody heals different and I presume they are different artificial knees and procedures.

So, anyone have experience with knee repairs?

TIA

Many (?most?) places want you up and walking on your new knee on the day of surgery. It will hurt but it already hurts now. Recovery time varies. Talk to some PTs. They see the results. Take their recommendations when choosing a surgeon (unless they are working for a surgeon).

There are a few options for knee replacement hardware and occasionally half a knee is put in (aka unicompartmental replacement) but each surgeon tends to use one manufacturer's system. It allows them to be efficient and comfortable with a manufacturer's representative who stands around and offers input and "support".

Lastly, take the nerve block if it's offered.

[LakeCleElum]

My knee replacement recovery:

Very painful surgery and I've had over a dozen. In hospital 2 nights. Was was up the next day trying to walk with the PT gal. Once home, I did my exercises more than recommended. Also, less than recommended Pain meds.....Several weeks of PT, 3 times/week.

I was snowmobiling in 5 weeks. Snowmobiling does flex the knees a lot.......At 3 months, doc asked why I recovered so quickly. I told him about snowmobiling. He said: "You never asked me"!! I said "You have said no"

So, 5 years later: Best thing I ever did. I put off replacement for over 10 yrs as I knew the doc would not release me to go back to work with a false knee. I didn't want to retire till I was in my 50's.........

If you are in constant pain, do it now...

[HardDrive]

Mom did a few years back. Absolute new lease on life.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

My knee replacement recovery:

Very painful surgery and I've had over a dozen. In hospital 2 nights. Was was up the next day trying to walk with the PT gal. Once home, I did my exercises more than recommended. Also, less than recommended Pain meds.....Several weeks of PT, 3 times/week.

I was snowmobiling in 5 weeks. Snowmobiling does flex the knees a lot.......At 3 months, doc asked why I recovered so quickly. I told him about snowmobiling. He said: "You never asked me"!! I said "You have said no"

So, 5 years later: Best thing I ever did. I put off replacement for over 10 yrs as I knew the doc would not release me to go back to work with a false knee. I didn't want to retire till I was in my 50's.........

If you are in constant pain, do it now...

+1

I blew out my right knee sofa king long ago. 88? Arthro in 93-ish to clean out floppy stuff. Early 30's.

Doc says come back and I will tighten up your ACL even though meniscus was gone. Golf/ Tennis forget it. Nothing sideways. World of inflammation and pain if aggravated.

30 years later as I slow down at 61, still ok. At 44 doc laughed at me. Said come back when you're 60 and I will give you a new knee. "I got peeps with serious problems".

Been three years with no real problems for me. I limp a little and then am normal.

Long story short, do it if it sucks. Mind does but not that much.