Getting better at 100 yards...

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

You were/are shooting .22 rim fire out to 100 yards!?!? What firearm do you use to get that kind of range?

Nope, not rimfire. From my post: Flies tend to disappear when hit with centerfire .22's and 6mm's. I would use either a varmint weight Remington 700 in .223 with a 36 power Leupold on it, or my custom Lilja barreled Ruger #1 in .220 Swift with a 6.5-20 power Leupold on it.

I was using 53 grain Sierra match bullets in both of them. H4895 in the .223, Reloder 15 in the Swift. Either rifle/load combination would shoot "minute of fly" all day long at 100 yards. I've since given the Remington to my oldest son, but still have the Ruger. I now shoot 60 grain Hornady V-Maxes over IMR4350, a far more effective load at long range, especially in the wind.

Now if you want to play a very, very challenging game, break out that .22 rimfire for some 200 yard shooting. There is nothing better for teaching you to dope the wind.

[LakeCleElum]

[QUOTE=A930Rocket;10061483]Here are two pictures from this weekend. I’m still learning to dial the scope in on my AR15 spoon (with a bi-pod).

Does your AR have a Free Floating barrel??

Do some reading:

Interweb search of: sniper training books

[A930Rocket]

I don’t know about the barrel.

I bought it from Palmetto State Armory about 4-5 years ago. It was my first of three spoons.

I’ve got a lot to learn and have been looking online for resources.

[QUOTE=LakeCleElum;10067110]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Here are two pictures from this weekend. I’m still learning to dial the scope in on my AR15 spoon (with a bi-pod).

Does your AR have a Free Floating barrel??

Do some reading:

Interweb search of: sniper training books

[svandamme]

look at the front of the barrel (obviously after making sure it's unloaded).
The outside of the barrel should not make any contact with the front end on which your bipod mounts.

If the bipod is mounted to the FSB, or if the front end makes contact with the barrel, the barrel will shift POI as it rests it's on the bipod.


top to bottom
non freeflat front end, bipod on the front end, but pushes on barrel
free float front end, bipod on frontend, doesn't push on barrel
free float front end, bipod on the FSB, does push on the barrel

[A930Rocket]

Well, it was a bust today.

I took off the bi-pod, set up the sand bags and couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn.

The crosshairs barely moved, if at all, but I was wearing my prescription sunglasses and it just didn’t look right. The crosshairs and center target were not clear.

I’ll have to try again tomorrow or next weekend with fewer variables changed.

[John Rogers]

Some things to consider are the more light that can get into your eye, even with a scope the better you will shoot. I use clear glasses and only if the targets are hard to see steel animals will I wear a yellow clip on. The yellow helps with better resolution. If you shot with one type of glasses or none and adjusted the parallax and focus and then put on different glasses the scope will have to be adjusted. I have had a lot of students that were in Iraq and Afghanistan and every day they would "zero" their scopes or sights in case something changed. One of them had his mom send him some new prescription glasses and they gave him fits until his scope got set up.

Have you gotten the trigger pull measured yet? If it can be adjusted then a clean, sharp 2# is what you want.

[A930Rocket]

Thanks, John.

I’ve not had the spoon looked at in any way.

I did talk to the Ranger at the range and he said he could coach me during the week. He was a sniper with the sheriffs swat team.

I’m looking forward to it.

[A930Rocket]

I've got the first type, where the non freeflat front end, bipod on the front end, but pushes on barrel

Originally Posted by svandamme

look at the front of the barrel (obviously after making sure it's unloaded).
The outside of the barrel should not make any contact with the front end on which your bipod mounts.

If the bipod is mounted to the FSB, or if the front end makes contact with the barrel, the barrel will shift POI as it rests it's on the bipod.


top to bottom
non freeflat front end, bipod on the front end, but pushes on barrel
free float front end, bipod on frontend, doesn't push on barrel
free float front end, bipod on the FSB, does push on the barrel

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Now if you want to play a very, very challenging game, break out that .22 rimfire for some 200 yard shooting. There is nothing better for teaching you to dope the wind.

My .22 LR Marlin wouldn't reach 200yds.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

My .22 LR Marlin wouldn't reach 200yds.

It absolutely will. I don't see it anymore, but I well remember buying standard velocity .22 long rifle rounds as a kid at my local Ernst Hardware store. Yes, they sold them to kids. I could only afford single boxes of 50 rounds, but I well remember the end flap saying "caution: range one mile".

I have a .22 caliber barrel insert that I use in my various .45 caliber black powder cartridge rifles. It fits any .45 - my several .45-70's (.45-2.1"), my .45-90 (.45-2.4"), and my .45-100 (.45-2.6"). It's made by Lee Shaver. We shoot 200 yard matches with these as a very realistic way to practice for 1,000 yard matches with these rifles. It's not easy, but neither is shooting 1,000 yards with peep sighted 19th century rifles shooting cast bullets over black powder.

[Bill Douglas]

I'm not saying this is the problem, it's just an amusing thing that springs to mind...

A friend bought a high end AR15 and put a good quality scope on it. But it was shooting all over the place, no consistency.

He researched match quality barrels as this is where the problem lies. I suggested it's shooting so badly that he pulls it apart, inspects for anything odd, cleans it and puts it back together carefully.

He checked his scope mounts and found he hadn't tightend up the screws. hehe.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

If you shot with one type of glasses or none and adjusted the parallax and focus and then put on different glasses the scope will have to be adjusted.

Agreed, and that's why non adjustable scopes rarely have zero parallax effect.
People think it's parallax free, but it ain't.

My Leupold HAMR at x4 was good, for it, but anything at 9X & 100 yds is probably not going to be truly parallax free for most people

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I've got the first type, where the non freeflat front end, bipod on the front end, but pushes on barrel

Then you'll have to be very careful how you load the barrel on the bipod.
Everytime you reposition yourself, the POI will probably shift.

To be honest, non free float is not for scoped accurate shooting.

It's good enough for military use, with iron sights, used within the needs of a squad of GI's and their tactics. Think human sized targets, not 1 inch target stickers.
The Designated Marksman in the Squad would have a better rifle that is free floated.

A Shorter barrel in a M4 like carbine will have less shift then the longer barrel of a M16 like rifle, but it will still shift POI.

putting the bipod back a bit can help somewhat because the barrel thins out a bit to the muzzel, and there is more leverage for the bipod, towards the muzzle.

A freefloat ris is not that expensive, starting at 80-100 USD, can even be installed by yourself if you can borrow a good AR barrel wrench and upper vise block from somebody

[911Ghia]

Don't have an AR, do have a Savage model25 walking varminter in .223.

At 100 yards I was getting patterns and not groups. That was with American Eagle switched to Hornady steel match, groups went from 4-5inches to 1/2-3/4 inches.
my 2 cents.............which can be left on the counter like we all do ;-)

Rich

[John Rogers]

The free floating barrels and not attaching the bipod to the barrel, ETC are good ideas BUT look at some of the videos of the 1000 yard black powder shooters and notice where they rest the barrel, yes barrel which is usually on their cross sticks. Hum makes you wonder? I shoot all my slug guns at 300 yards with the barrel half way on the cross sticks and can get 1 MOA or better with tang sights. Maybe because I have 1 1/2 in barrel helps a little?

I would suggest getting a spiral note book and list every thing that has been covered here and also on other gun boards then test them and note yes/no did they help. That will end the flailing around and give you accurate results. Remember to shoot 20 shots minimum, no wind and on a rest of some sort so you are not the issue.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by John Rogers

The free floating barrels and not attaching the bipod to the barrel, ETC are good ideas BUT look at some of the videos of the 1000 yard black powder shooters and notice where they rest the barrel, yes barrel which is usually on their cross sticks. Hum makes you wonder? I shoot all my slug guns at 300 yards with the barrel half way on the cross sticks and can get 1 MOA or better with tang sights. Maybe because I have 1 1/2 in barrel helps a little?

Yes, we rest the barrel itself on our cross sticks. The key is to find the "harmonic dead spot" of the barrel in question. To do this, I hang the rifle from the wrist or pistol grip area of the stock, muzzle down. Then, listening very carefully, I ping the barrel with a small plastic hammer, starting at the muzzle and working towards the breach, pinging it every inch or so. It will ring like a tuning fork until you hit it on its harmonic dead spot, where it will then make a dull thud. Continuing towards the breach, it will begin to ring once again. I mark the dead spot by wrapping a piece of masking tape around it.

This may or may not work with lighter barrels and higher velocity, higher intensity cartridges. I've never tried it. All of my heavy barreled bolt guns are free floated. Interestingly, though, I find a bit of fore end pressure makes my big bore dangerous game rifles settle down and shoot a bit better.

Originally Posted by John Rogers

I would suggest getting a spiral note book and list every thing that has been covered here and also on other gun boards then test them and note yes/no did they help. That will end the flailing around and give you accurate results. Remember to shoot 20 shots minimum, no wind and on a rest of some sort so you are not the issue.

I will heartily second this advice - it's some of the best you have been given. Take notes. Be methodical. Write down everything you try, everything you change, and the results on target. Otherwise you will soon be chasing your tail, overwhelmed with good - and not so good - advice, and losing track of what had what affect.

[Bill Douglas]

And fire a a number fouling shots before you start taking measurements. It's purely my own thoughts, but I believe fouling shots warm the barrel up so it's expanded to it's more usual shooting spec's.

[dmcummins]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

My .22 LR Marlin wouldn't reach 200yds.

My high end shutzen target rifle is a 22 short. And my understanding is it was used for 100 yard matches.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I was using 53 grain Sierra match bullets in both of them. H4895 in the .223,

Jeff, in your opinion...

My Sako .223 with slow twist barrel, the 1-12". I'm thinking of handloading some rounds with very light projectiles. I'd like really good accuracy. Maybe 45 or 40 grain Speer projectiles. Could I reload them on my Dillion 550B or is the powder throw not accurate enough. I don't really want to go down the powder trickler route if I don't have to.

[abisel]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Jeff, in your opinion...

My Sako .223 with slow twist barrel, the 1-12". I'm thinking of handloading some rounds with very light projectiles. I'd like really good accuracy. Maybe 45 or 40 grain Speer projectiles. Could I reload them on my Dillion 550B or is the powder throw not accurate enough. I don't really want to go down the powder trickler route if I don't have to.

If I may, my Dillion 550B powder throw will leak Win748 small grain powder, so I use my Redding powder throw to measure the powder. As for the 1:12 twist, it may be to fast for the light 40/45 gr. bullets. But shooting them will tell all. I have a 1:13 20" Krieger for 52gr. Sierra HPBT and it is a tack driver at 100 yds.

Maybe this article will help:
223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide

[gwood]

Carlos Hathcock Method of Sighting in a Rifle