Getting better at 100 yards...

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by KC911

I don't shoot long distances like you guys.....mebbe 125 yds max. My eyes are still "good" though, so nothing I shoot wears glasses either . Learn to play an acoustic before picking up an electric guitar...sound advice from Keef....same applies here I reckon. I bet Higgins can't put more .177 pellets inside a tennis ball at 30-40 yds than I can with our Diana 34s however..and he can even use a scope if he wants to

You're taking a risk that I would not. I hit steel plates at 20+ yards and the .177 pellets come flying back into my patio and bounce around.
Don't think I would shoot a tennis ball.
But I'm a pooosy.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

You're taking a risk that I would not. I hit steel plates at 20+ yards and the .177 pellets come flying back into my patio and bounce around.
Don't think I would shoot a tennis ball.
But I'm a pooosy.

A steel plate? You're the one taking risks Don! Seriously....the pellets wind up inside the ball....not on my deck. I hung a small plastic coffee can dangling from my back split rail fence (30 yds) when I purchased my Diana 34 a few years ago....it's easier to see with open sights....the pellet holes are all grouped wthin a tennis ball size....dead center. My uncle also purchased a Diana 52 (Weaver scope) when I got mine....thinking we could have contests....until he saw me shoot mine the first time . He can do a 3" group at 450 yds with his hunting rifle, but we don't have "no contests" with air rifles either. I don't shoot that much....took a few decades off, but then I discovered PPOT....and Higgins....damn him, or thank him....I can't decide . Shooting is fun....but I'm not big on formal ranges and punching holes in paper either.

To the OP....if you are that new to spoons, methinks you're doing fine just starting out....some of these guys are trained pros who've been shooting for decades....at a VERY high level....if I may say so .

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

My shooting position as seen in the movies.

Sometimes my left hand is on my shoulder and some times on the handle off the barrel.

What’s the best position?

I still need to find my sweet spot where I look at the scope and see everything correctly.

Just my $0.02, but looking at the above pic, the first thing I would try is changing your body position and cheek weld. It looks like your cheek weld is more on the buffer tube and not the stock.
You appear to be bladed-off to the target quite a bit as well, as opposed to being more squared up to it.

So, maybe try squaring up to (facing) the target, and work on getting a proper check weld on the actual stock body.
Pull the bottom of the stock firmly into your shoulder pocket or upper side of your pec (whatever your preference), keeping that “chicken wing” down.
Basically you want to get the highest cheek-weld on the stock that is comfortably possible while still being effective at mitigating the effects of recoil (though not really an issue with .223/5.56).
Then let your cheek fall naturally on the stock to get your sight picture/sight alignment. Just try to avoid craning your neck forward, or drooping it down too much.

Do that in conjunction with getting the fit/ergos right. Assuming that stock is adjustable, find what setting works best for your desired length-of-pull and proper eye relief for your scope.
This might take some experimentation and moving the scope mount back/forward to get everything just right. Some scopes have a more forgiving "eye box" than others, so the sweet spot (no scope-shadow) will vary from scope-to-scope.
Make sure the scope diopter is set to your eye as well. Just hold it up to the sky and adjust the diopter until the reticle is tack-sharp. Do this in brief “sessions” as your eye will compensate quickly.

After getting all the ergos dialed in, practice getting that consistent cheek-weld, using reference points on the rifle/stock if needed. You might also experiment with different grips to find out what size/angle/trigger length works best.


Also, if you are doing your part, and accuracy is still sub-par after trying different ammo, make sure the mechanicals on the rifle (and optic) are all in order.
If you have a loose barrel nut, scope rings, scope base/mount, etc., you will be chasing your zero forever and accuracy will suffer. For the scope rings/mount, it can be helpful to use witness marks on the fasteners once everything is properly torqued down. This lets you visually verify that nothing has come loose and also lets you return the mount to the same approximate torque when removing/reinstalling.
If it's a QD mount, make sure that the clamping force/tension is adjusted to be tight/solid.

You might want to do a couple box/tracking tests with the scope as well, to make sure it's functioning correctly (repeatable), and not a lemon.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I need to see if I can take a picture through my scope. To me, the target looks tiny. But then it’s only 6” I think. I’ll have to check when I get home.

You mentioned the scope was a 3-9x40. Were you zoomed in to max magnification?

[A930Rocket]

Yes, otherwise, I can’t see shyt. 🤪

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

You mentioned the scope was a 3-9x40. Were you zoomed in to max magnification?

[A930Rocket]

I’m 6’-4” and 250. The spoon feels small for me. If I shorten the stock, I can’t get my shoulder / eye to the scope comfortable, but I’ll try the good advice from everyone.

Lots to try this weekend!

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

Just my $0.02, but looking at the above pic, the first thing I would try is changing your body position and cheek weld. It looks like your cheek weld is more on the buffer tube and not the stock.
You appear to be bladed-off to the target quite a bit as well, as opposed to being more squared up to it.

So, maybe try squaring up to (facing) the target, and work on getting a proper check weld on the actual stock body.
Pull the bottom of the stock firmly into your shoulder pocket or upper side of your pec (whatever your preference), keeping that “chicken wing” down.
Basically you want to get the highest cheek-weld on the stock that is comfortably possible while still being effective at mitigating the effects of recoil (though not really an issue with .223/5.56).
Then let your cheek fall naturally on the stock to get your sight picture/sight alignment. Just try to avoid craning your neck forward, or drooping it down too much.

Do that in conjunction with getting the fit/ergos right. Assuming that stock is adjustable, find what setting works best for your desired length-of-pull and proper eye relief for your scope.
This might take some experimentation and moving the scope mount back/forward to get everything just right. Some scopes have a more forgiving "eye box" than others, so the sweet spot (no scope-shadow) will vary from scope-to-scope.
Make sure the scope diopter is set to your eye as well. Just hold it up to the sky and adjust the diopter until the reticle is tack-sharp. Do this in brief “sessions” as your eye will compensate quickly.

After getting all the ergos dialed in, practice getting that consistent cheek-weld, using reference points on the rifle/stock if needed. You might also experiment with different grips to find out what size/angle/trigger length works best.


Also, if you are doing your part, and accuracy is still sub-par after trying different ammo, make sure the mechanicals on the rifle (and optic) are all in order.
If you have a loose barrel nut, scope rings, scope base/mount, etc., you will be chasing your zero forever and accuracy will suffer. For the scope rings/mount, it can be helpful to use witness marks on the fasteners once everything is properly torqued down. This lets you visually verify that nothing has come loose and also lets you return the mount to the same approximate torque when removing/reinstalling.
If it's a QD mount, make sure that the clamping force/tension is adjusted to be tight/solid.

You might want to do a couple box/tracking tests with the scope as well, to make sure it's functioning correctly (repeatable), and not a lemon.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by vash

Reiver opened the door:

yea, i would expect tighter groups with a scope.

I had the same thing at 100 yds due to incorrect paralax, you wouldn't believe it but you can get soccerball sized groups yet from aiming at a inch size dot
if you move your head around and you have paralax settings set incorrectly the resulting error is huge.
Or don't have any on the scope you use, same thing.
Move out to 300 yds and the problem goes away.

At some point I thought my scope was defective.
Hadn't shot 100 in a long time, came back from Norway, wanted to load ammo and test some things at 100.
couldn't group to save my own life.
Went to UK to shoot (where we never went shorter then 600 yds) and used a friends scope, no more problem.

So i decide i'll buy a new scope
scope arrives
Same ******* problem. at 100 yds when i tried to zero it.
Got a friend to shoot both scopes
He was shooting sub MOA.

[abisel]

A930Rocket, your spoon feels small to you because it is. A carbine with a 16" barrel and adjustable stock.

For long range accuracy, ya need a 28" barrel and a sight radius around 30".

I built this 223 match rifle a couple years ago and only shot it enough to break in the barrel. Me thinks I need to get out and do some long range shooting.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by KC911

I don't shoot long distances like you guys.....mebbe 125 yds max. My eyes are still "good" though, so nothing I shoot wears glasses either . Learn to play an acoustic before picking up an electric guitar...sound advice from Keef....same applies here I reckon. I bet Higgins can't put more .177 pellets inside a tennis ball at 30-40 yds than I can with our Diana 34s however..and he can even use a scope if he wants to

I love this place... A tennis ball at 30-40 yards? That's a handgun target. Peacemaker with original spec black powder loads, shooting bullets cast in my garage. My "standard" air rifle target in the back yard is a beer bottle cap, suspended on a wire hanging from the laurel hedge at about 25 yards. Painted orange so I can see it. Offhand only, peep sights only. If I can't hit it nine out of ten times, I grab another beer...

[Don Ro]

[QUOTE=Jeff Higgins;10065950]I love this place... A tennis ball at 30-40 yards? That's a handgun target. Peacemaker with original spec black powder loads, shooting bullets cast in my garage. My "standard" air rifle target in the back yard is a beer bottle cap, suspended on a wire hanging from the laurel hedge at about 25 yards. Painted orange so I can see it. Offhand only, peep sights only. If I can't hit it nine out of ten times, I grab another beer... [/QUOTE

Ha!
My Webley Tempest target is an aspirin super glued to the nuts of my neighbor's black cat.
Standing in my patio, if I can't hit it the first time he comes scampering over my cinder black wall 60 yards away, I make an appt. w/my psychiatrist.
~~~~~~~~~~~


~~~~~~~~~~~

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I love this place... A tennis ball at 30-40 yards? That's a handgun target. Peacemaker with original spec black powder loads, shooting bullets cast in my garage. My "standard" air rifle target in the back yard is a beer bottle cap, suspended on a wire hanging from the laurel hedge at about 25 yards. Painted orange so I can see it. Offhand only, peep sights only. If I can't hit it nine out of ten times, I grab another beer...

I know for a fact you would outshoot me....I just had to type that out! I'd enjoy the challenge, the beer, learn a few things, and have a freakin' ball . I just mentioned a tennis ball...'cause there was a dawgy ball in my yard....

Most of us casual shooters are just that...I have no doubt that I suck, compared to the best....just like every other activity I've ever done...sports, etc. But it's all about having fun.....

Thank you Jeff (and others)....this board rekindled that many years ago

[Don Ro]

My mother's second husband was a farmer in N.D. His older brother brought home his Army M-1 carbine.
The summer after I graduated HS, I worked on the farm digging, plowing, etc. I'd grab the carbine and a pocket full of ammo after breakfast and stop work in the field when I saw a varmint or just to take a break to shoot at a white rock.
In boot camp that autumn ('63) we shot the same carbine...I was relieved. I shot one count less than a perfect score. Got an expert medal which I seem to have lost somehow.
I've always been a good shot...until that Webley Tempest (above) came into my life a couple of years ago.
I think that Jeff H. turned me onto it.
I hunted all of my youth in N.D. .222 and a 30-06 mostly. .22 for gophers.
.
Dead Eye Don.

[A930Rocket]

I had no idea what parallax was until I watched the video below. I’ll check it tomorrow if the rain holds out.

Does my scope have parallax adjustment?

From the Amazon website: 100-yard Parallax Setting-Eliminates parallax for precise shooting.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&camp=1789&tag=wwwpelicanpar-20&creative=9325&path=https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006YVT0R8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Originally Posted by svandamme

I had the same thing at 100 yds due to incorrect paralax, you wouldn't believe it but you can get soccerball sized groups yet from aiming at a inch size dot
if you move your head around and you have paralax settings set incorrectly the resulting error is huge.
Or don't have any on the scope you use, same thing.
Move out to 300 yds and the problem goes away.

At some point I thought my scope was defective.
Hadn't shot 100 in a long time, came back from Norway, wanted to load ammo and test some things at 100.
couldn't group to save my own life.
Went to UK to shoot (where we never went shorter then 600 yds) and used a friends scope, no more problem.

So i decide i'll buy a new scope
scope arrives
Same ******* problem. at 100 yds when i tried to zero it.
Got a friend to shoot both scopes
He was shooting sub MOA.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by abisel

A930Rocket, your spoon feels small to you because it is. A carbine with a 16" barrel and adjustable stock.

For long range accuracy, ya need a 28" barrel and a sight radius around 30".

I built this 223 match rifle a couple years ago and only shot it enough to break in the barrel. Me thinks I need to get out and do some long range shooting.

Sight radius is irrelevant with a scope and a shorter barrel is also a stiffer barrel, if the same construction, so longer isn't always better.

Finding a round that works can make a huge difference because of twist rate and the barrel harmonics.

[pwd72s]

Just a fun old shooting tale. Sun Valley Porsche Parade, 1971. Noticed there was a range at Sun Valley, so I tossed my Browning Challenger and a few hundred rounds of CCI .22 LR in my luggage. Oregon Region cocktail party the night before, talking shooting with another guy, we planning to go to the range the next day. A wife of another guy said her hubby Vic loved to shoot. So, now we were three.

Next day, walking into the range..Rangemaster; "Vic! Remember me? I left the Corps the year you got the best new shooter award." Whoops..Vic a marine. Never touched a firearm until basic. When it was noticed he had an apptitude for the handgun, he was taken aside..his entire time served was representing the Corps in shooting. That day, I learned a lot...

Vic said my Browning was one of the best out of the box pistols he'd shot. I asked if he did his mods. Nope, he'd just hand it to a gunny and describe what he liked or didn't like.

To rifles...I loved going to the range with my deer rifle. A plain jane model 722 Remington...1950's vintage. I did have it glass bedded, topped with a 4X with duplex hairs.

I'd put it against an AR15 @ 100 yards...

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I had no idea what parallax was until I watched the video below. I’ll check it tomorrow if the rain holds out.

Does my scope have parallax adjustment?

From the Amazon website: 100-yard Parallax Setting-Eliminates parallax for precise shooting.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&camp=1789&tag=wwwpelicanpar-20&creative=9325&path=https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006YVT0R8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Scope has no parallax adjustment, it's fixed for 100 yds.
But don't let that fool you, there is no such thing as a perfect setting at 100 yds.

A scope with parallax adjustment would have either a 3rd turret on the left, an Adjustable Objective up front .

Having adjustment doesn't change that you need to figure out how to detect that you need an adjustment.

No need to go to the range to figure out how the error works.
if you have a garage, or living room that is 10 meters long, or something like that.

put up a playing card,
fix your rifle in a vice or on a sand bag, so it can't move
and bob your head around, you'll see what happens the reticle will move around over the playing card.. That's parallax at work for you.

Now look around at the dark ring around your reticle
see how it comes and goes and moves around.
Thats what you need to be weary off when you shoot.

Find the right cheeckweld, where the shadow ring is just gone.
And learn to check your hold before each shot, check if you see the ring, if you do, don't shoot and check your cheekweld..

Anyway, play around with it at home, and you'll waste less time and ammo at the range..

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I had no idea what parallax was until I watched the video below. I’ll check it tomorrow if the rain holds out.

Does my scope have parallax adjustment?

No, and it's really a non-issue on a 3-9x scope IMO. Like most low-mid power scopes, yours has a fixed parallax at 100 yards.
So, if you are shooting targets at 100 yards it's even more of a non-issue. Still, it's good to practice getting a consistent/repeatable check-weld/sight alignment. Iron sights are good for that.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Ha!
My Webley Tempest target is an aspirin super glued to the nuts of my neighbor's black cat.
Standing in my patio, if I can't hit it the first time he comes scampering over my cinder black wall 60 yards away, I make an appt. w/my psychiatrist.
~~~~~~~~~~~

I love it. Moving target practice.

True story (not that the above wasn't... ): We used to hold an informal "fly shoot" at my club range. For whatever reason, flies are attracted to WD 40... So, of course, the obvious thing to do is to turn the target paper around backwards, so it's blank, and hose it down with WD 40 before hanging it at 100 yards. Then just sit at the bench and wait for the flies...

Hits had to be confirmed by a spotter. Flies tend to disappear when hit with centerfire .22's and 6mm's. They often won't even leave a splat. After awhile, of course, it started getting down to where you hit the fly.

At that point, we had a number ink stamps of a life size fly made up, complete with scoring values. Head shots were five points, body three, wings one. We spent countless hours stamping flies on the backs of target paper. Things were getting pretty serious.

The semi-official Kenmore Ranges Fly Shoot went on semi-regularly for years. To be competitive, you had to be able to consistently hit the head. Top benchrest competitors from the area found this to be their most fun, and most challenging match. Good times.

[abisel]

Originally Posted by flipper35

Sight radius is irrelevant with a scope and a shorter barrel is also a stiffer barrel, if the same construction, so longer isn't always better.

Finding a round that works can make a huge difference because of twist rate and the barrel harmonics.

• True, sight radius is mostly relevant for open or match sights. The closer to a 36" sight radius with iron sights, the more accurate your 1/8 MOA sight adjustment will change the bullet point-of-impact 1/8 MOA.
• even though a shorter barrel may be stiffer for a given contour, it will impede on muzzle velocity, bullet RPM and thus bullet stabilization.
• for a longer barrel, you must increase the barrel diameter to maintain stiffness. Most AR match rifles have a 28" barrel with a barrel extension (bloop tube) to increase the sight radius (I need to get a bloop tube). A lot of the long barrel AR's also have flutes machined into the barrel to increases stiffness and improved cooling.
• finding the right bullet weight for the twist rate of a short 16" barrel is true, but also true for the longer barrels. Bullet muzzle velocity is also a player.

Cheers,

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I love it. Moving target practice.

True story (not that the above wasn't... ): We used to hold an informal "fly shoot" at my club range. For whatever reason, flies are attracted to WD 40... So, of course, the obvious thing to do is to turn the target paper around backwards, so it's blank, and hose it down with WD 40 before hanging it at 100 yards. Then just sit at the bench and wait for the flies...

Hits had to be confirmed by a spotter. Flies tend to disappear when hit with centerfire .22's and 6mm's. They often won't even leave a splat. After awhile, of course, it started getting down to where you hit the fly.

At that point, we had a number ink stamps of a life size fly made up, complete with scoring values. Head shots were five points, body three, wings one. We spent countless hours stamping flies on the backs of target paper. Things were getting pretty serious.

The semi-official Kenmore Ranges Fly Shoot went on semi-regularly for years. To be competitive, you had to be able to consistently hit the head. Top benchrest competitors from the area found this to be their most fun, and most challenging match. Good times.

You were/are shooting .22 rim fire out to 100 yards!?!? What firearm do you use to get that kind of range?