Talk me through rust repair....Please

[Fishcop]

It may scare you but, the easiest way to get to the kidney bowl and to address the sills is to cut away the rear quarter just under the striker all the way to the wheel arch and then drill the spotwelds in the door seam to release the section. Replacement kidney bowls are about $30 each.



I'd try just carefully cutting the outer sill away in the hope it can be patched and salvaged. If the inner sill is completely ruined also, then you may want to just replace both (about $90 each from our host). I think the rusted area of the door jamb you have is available as a patch also.

There's more photos on my resto thread that should help.

[DaddyGlenn]

I was just going through your thread looking for a picture just like that. That is what I thought I would need to do. Guess I just need to take a deep breath and cut....

[Fishcop]

Try and get your hands on a body saw or a 1mm cutting wheel - both will give a really nice cut that is ideal for welding back together. Don't use anything that removes too much metal from the cut!

[DaddyGlenn]

I'll use this...



It cuts through sheet metal very easily and makes a very thin cut.

[DaddyGlenn]

I started stripping away the paint so I could see the spot welds and the areas where the panels meet. I found some soft metal at the seam above the jack point.


Did the factory use lead to fill this area?

Here are a couple pictures after I finished uncovering the seams...

Top


Bottom


Should I try to take the outer rocker and the section of the quarter panel off as a single piece or should I separate this joint?

[Fishcop]

Glenn, it is indeed factory lead. You can use a torch to gently melt it away if you need.

I'd cut at the join as it looks like the outer rocker is pretty good. I think threads by Speedo and Membersfield show how to make that damaged portion of your rear quarter and door sill.

[Gillies]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

It may scare you but, the easiest way to get to the kidney bowl and to address the sills is to cut away the rear quarter just under the striker all the way to the wheel arch and then drill the spotwelds in the door seam to release the section. Replacement kidney bowls are about $30 each.



I'd try just carefully cutting the outer sill away in the hope it can be patched and salvaged. If the inner sill is completely ruined also, then you may want to just replace both (about $90 each from our host). I think the rusted area of the door jamb you have is available as a patch also.

There's more photos on my resto thread that should help.

Pardon my ignorence but what is a kidney bowl ??

[DaddyGlenn]

Also known as the rocker support. It is the vertical bulge reviled in the above picture.

Good question. It took me forever to figure it out.

[D911SC]

I think the new part looks like this?

[Fishcop]

Originally Posted by D911SC

I think the new part looks like this?

Yep, that's it!

[Gillies]

Cool, I suspect I will need to deal with that as well. Just getting started and it doesn't look so good.

[DaddyGlenn]

Good news first. I drilled out 94 spot welds in the outer rocker panel and wrestled it free. And the inner rocker panel is solid!



After cleaning it up...



The only rust is a little surface rust at the bottom weld.



And now the bad news...

I drilled out 94 spot welds and removed the outer rocker panel when it turns out I didn't need to.

[Fishcop]

You'll sleep at night though

[DaddyGlenn]

I cut away the rest of the sheet metal today to expose the kidney bowl. Here is what I found...



And after clean up with a wire wheel...



I am guessing that the outer rocker panel tucks under the rear quarter panel. If that is true then that part of the outer rocker is practically gone.



So what is the best way to remove the kidney bowl? Drill all the spot welds or cut it close to the tub and grind the remaining?

[ratpiper71T]

These threads from users jpnovak and cnielsen might help. Don't know if anyone's mentioned these yet?

Complete rocker replacement


1967 911 restoration...becoming a T/R

[Fishcop]

Glenn, I think you've just made a "great save"... It looks like you could just make up some patches, but for $30 each I'd probably cut away those kidney bowls and replace them. It would also make sure the inner skin is clear of rust too.

[Kemo]

man...for not having any welding skills...you sure got skills Great job, love the thread. You should have a car that will last a lifetime when you get done

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Fishcop

Glenn, I think you've just made a "great save"... It looks like you could just make up some patches, but for $30 each I'd probably cut away those kidney bowls and replace them. It would also make sure the inner skin is clear of rust too.

Absolutely, your in that deep do it right!

[DaddyGlenn]

Thanks everyone for the comments and help so far. I will replace the kidney bowls (both sides). I'm going to open up the other side to see what is there, or not there as the case may be. Then I'll order the sheet metal.

Question... When I start welding things back up, when and where do I use seam sealer? And what type/brand is recommended?

[drcoastline]

I wasn't going to weigh in because I don't want to pass off Porsche962's experience and advice as my own. But considering he hasn't posted here since the 3rd post of the 1st page it seems he may not be following. So my statements are based on his advice. 962 if you are watching please confirm.


Porsche962 recommends using SEM rust shield as it is cromated with hardener. The can states an 8:1 mixture. Spray this on the areas that will not be welded. Shall I say to seal the metal from rust.

This part is my advice but combines two of 962's techniques. From the post "newbie welding question-trapped moisture". He advises spraying a chromated weld through primer on the two mating surfaces to prevent rust from forming between the two pieces of metal. I would think that the weld through primer should be sprayed on the two surface that will come in contact with each other as you will not be able to get any rust preventative measures in the sealed cavity after welding.

As an example on the kidney bowl below. This is the inside surface. Spray the whole thing with SEM, after it dries grind the SEM off the flange that will be welded (section hight lighted in orange) then spray with weld through primer. Also spray the surface that the kidney bowl will mount to with SEM again grind the SEM off the surface where the flange comes in contact and will be welded. Then spray with weld through primer.



Weld the part on to the car. Then top coat with SEM let dry and then seam seal. As I understand 962's advice you SEM prior to seam sealing. This allows the chromate rust inhibitors in the paint to come in direct contact with the metal surface. Apply the seam sealer over the SEM after the SEM dries.

My local jobber offered #M selaer in caulk tubes or Evercoat brushable seam sealer. I purchased the brushable sealer.

962 if you see this please verify.